November 15, 2007
Double Decker Buses? Alright or Cherrio?
Later this month you will start to see something droll, orthodontically-estranged, and charmingly inbred on the street of San Francisco: British-like double decker buses. San Francisco will be trying out the 14-foot-tall buses along the busy streets of Geary and Mission to see how the riding public feels about them. Will you be a top rider or a bottom?
Now, this can be either very, very good or very, very bad. The good: easy maneuverability, somehow able to relief "congested streets," throngs of happy passengers whistling The Colonel Bogey March. The bad: you will be gang-raped and murdered on the top level by ugly, swarthy teens.
Anyway, it starts out as a short-term experiment, but if all goes well, we might have 'em permanently. Keep an eye out for the buses after Thanksgiving. Also, we hope that they're still red. And don't tip over on us while we're on the sidewalk. What do you all think?
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Who cares! Barry Bonds just got indicted for perjury and obstruction of justice!!
who's barry bonds?
I'd rather see light rail down Geary...it'd be an interesting novelty during off times but otherwise I think it'd be too difficult to manuever through the bus.
Will the top floor be the first class cabin?
American gangsters on top ... people who aren't armed on the bottom
DO WANT.
This is extremely cool. I hope they end up permanently running them on the Chinatown lines and crunch-loaded commuter routes (like the 5 and 21) that often have to skip stops because they're too full.
London got rid of almost all of their double decker buses at the end of 2005 because of disabled access issues.
Will wheelchair access be a big issue that activists be pissed about?
(oh, just read the SFGate article, looks like they are already getting ready to squawk about it)
London did not get rid of their DD buses, they got rid of the old-style DD buses. The new DD's are fully accessable.
I too have concerns that they may tip over. I've seen regular buses that looked like they were going to tip over as a driver screeched around a corner. I would prefer a Geary light rail.
Love the "gang raped and murdered by swarthy teens" line, by the way.
Didn't the Harry Potter Knight bus already come to San Francisco?
The bus can seat 80 people? I hope that's a typo. The new Orions can seat more than that.
As an aside... we don't need these pie in the sky ideas. We should take this Prop A. money and ensure that first and foremost the infrastructure we have today will provide reliable service. The 40ft buses purchased in '99 (the 40ft NABIs), some of the newer ones (the NeoPlans), and almost all of the light rail vehicles are nearing their mid-life point. They desperately need some attention (noticed the doors on the trains acting up more and more?). Instead of pressuring MUNI to spend money on all sorts of other things, they really ought to emphasize the importance of keeping the existing fleet in good knick.
Great! the weather here is perfect for it... not. But hey anything to.. and please do it. Replace the cable cars on wheels driven by jokesters with a PA.
I didn't know that all those fake cable car drivers had Prince Alberts.
Double deckers for the 30seXpress, baby! Instead of gang rape upstairs, we'd have date rape through swarthy Marina guys with Reef flip flops!
MUNI is great at these showy, one-time things that make them seem like they're doing something, but of course, they need to fix the MUNI trains and buses as the person earlier in the thread said...
but if this means that one of 'em can be used for meetings for spies like in The Avengers, hell why not.
Maybe I'm just a nervous nancy, but I do not see myself having a good time on one of those buses (top or bottom floor) while going up one of SF's magical hills. Which is why, of course, I wouldn't ride it, and everyone with an ounce of balls would...
I used, like, 5 sexual puns in that comment.
They use double decker buses in Las Vegas on the strip. Maybe they could consider an articulated double decker, or if Muni hates that, get those double articulated buses (two accordions) to make an extra long bus.
Top deck of a DD bus in London = a charming, fun sightseeing experience.
Top deck of a hypothetical DD bus in SF = no thank you. Even if the top levels aren't colonized by homeless or gang-banging teens, could you imagine how many people would get pushed down those stairs?
MUNI needs to focus on becoming a functional transit system again. They are so far from being able to consider stuff like this.
Dumb stuff.
Fix the damn J! I am tried of sitting at stop lights and stopping for stop signs. It's ridiculous
This could be okay on motorcoach routes that are crowded but do not have security problems. However, that excludes most of the major lines - would you want to ride on the upper deck of a 38 through the Tenderloin?
Not surprised that disabled activists have complained - they complained about low floor buses for years because wheelchair users would have to get on via the back door. This went on until the entire rest of the transit industry converted to low floor and there were literally no more high floor vehicles to be had anywhere.
Sweet baby Moses, can we just get a light rail? PLEASE? How about an underground down Geary?
The 28 could really use some additional capacity. But, it could also probably be served just fine by some articulated buses.
I would worry more about security than stability on double deckers. Amongst the SFGate comments were some about Hong Kong using double deckers in a hilly environment.
Instead of yet another different piece of equipment to maintain, let's work on the structural problems first. Maybe Newsom should ride the 38 so we could get some increased traffic enforcement along Geary. Where's the signal priority? How about not pooh poohing regular maintenance? Sheesh.
Subway down Geary, Subway down van Ness. Hell, maybe even a subway down 19th Ave. Screw this shit, and screw that BRT shit too!
Hrmm...And that Van Ness subway should extend into a Mission street subway as well. Allll the way down to Daly City. Oh yeah....
What this town really needs is a monorail.
Monorail!
Lyle Lanley: Well, sir, there's nothing on earth
Like a genuine,
Bona fide,
Electrified,
Six-car
Monorail!
What'd I say?
Ned Flanders: Monorail!
Lyle Lanley: What's it called?
Patty+Selma: Monorail!
Lyle Lanley: That's right! Monorail!
[crowd chants `Monorail' softly and rhythmically]
Miss Hoover: I hear those things are awfully loud...
Lyle Lanley: It glides as softly as a cloud.
Apu: Is there a chance the track could bend?
Lyle Lanley: Not on your life, my Hindu friend.
Barney: What about us brain-dead slobs?
Lyle Lanley: You'll be given cushy jobs.
Abe: Were you sent here by the devil?
Lyle Lanley: No, good sir, I'm on the level.
Wiggum: The ring came off my pudding can.
Lyle Lanley: Take my pen knife, my good man.
I swear it's Springfield's only choice...
Throw up your hands and raise your voice!
All: Monorail!
Lyle Lanley: What's it called?
All: Monorail!
Lyle Lanley: Once again...
All: Monorail!
Marge: But Main Street's still all cracked and broken...
Bart: Sorry, Mom, the mob has spoken!
All: Monorail!
Monorail!
Monorail!
[big finish]
Monorail!
Homer: Mono... D'oh!
is there anything better than a good ol' fashioned simpsons musical number?
nope. nothin' better. thank you jim!
I am sure glad we are paying Ford 300K per year to come up with such innovative ideas
Much love to Muni for thinking outside of the box. Howev, their planners need to be a little less touchy feely with this shit. Fuck the parking spaces and the public transit haterz. Quit hemming and hawing and create a dedicated right of way for the BRT vehicles, already!
That is really what this discussion is about - How are they going to implement BRT. We've already chosen to skimp on the rail, now we are being asked to skimp on the BRT. Being fiscally responsible does not mean doing things half-assed, yo.
I'm a big fan of the triple-fly-articulated long ass slug buses like in LA, but SF is much more dense, and streets are tighter. If the capacity of each vehicle is the same and the time it takes getting on and off is similar, then the smaller footprint makes the most sense IMHO.
DD buses are a dumb idea on BRT line that runs in a dedicated lane and that has full level boarding (like the T-Third platforms) so that wheelchair users can get on or off at any door. In SF where BRT lines will have to go back and forth between traffic and BRT only lanes and stop at normal stops as well as full level platform stops, it may work out OK. People getting "discriminated" out of a view from the top may be what we deserve for pursuing a BRT-lite, parking and automobile friendly strategy.
From what I've heard from my handicapable gambling-addicted, er... show-going friends, the Las Vegas buses are completely accessible with the obvious exception of the top floor. The SF access wankstas need to compellingly argue that riding on the top floor of a double decker bus is an essential part of taking public transit. Is it though? I see the view from the top as more of an amenity... but I ain't so cripped-out just yet. Talk to me about how happy I am climbing stairs, or being segregated to the view from the first floor after my first stroke or traumatic brain injury, K?
Well, BRT lines shouldn't go back and forth between dedicated rights of way and traffic. They should have their own right of way and, at the very least, signal priority.
That said, upon further thought, the DD buses could be neat on 19th Ave where you people are allowed to park, and thus you've got a bit less room than on say Park Presidio.
Then again maybe it's time to electrify both some passengers and some of the routes. A 40ft trolley coach has a higher passenger capacity (104 w/ standees) than the hybrids or diesel coaches (80 for most of the diesels, 73 for the hybrids).