Yucky Anti-Nonviolence Leaflet Handed Out at Occupy Oakland

Could be the legit work of a crazy, but could also be a smear.  COINTELPRO never really ended.

jobless and useless

BEST OF LUCK WITH YOUR MEAT FIGHT

Hang on. This post has been up for hours and there has been no retraction denial from Occupy DC? Somebody call Justin Jacoby Smith!

Who backs OWS? Let's look at a list:Communist Party USAAmerican Nazi PartyAyatollah KhameneiThe government of North KoreaLouis Farrakhan, Nation of IslamRevolutionary Communist PartyDavid DukeHugo ChavezBlack PanthersSocialist Party USAIndustrial Workers of the WorldCAIRCommunist Party of ChinaHezbollahWhite Revolutionhttp://pjmedia.com/z...

Saying that X, Y and Z like A, B, and C does not in any way imply that A, B, or C like X, Y, or Z.  This is basic logic.  You're committing a classic fallacy that any first-year debate student would recognize.

The Communists, Nazis, North Koreans, David Duke and those others all support OWS? Wow. That really *is* the 99%.

Is it computer time at One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest or something?

Is it time to follow the link or something?

If you support these dopey people maybe you should know who they're associated with.

If the communist party issued a statement of support for the Tea Party does that mean that the Tea Party is "associated" with the communist party?

Since it is a leaderless movement ruled by consensus of general assemblies, then they are "associated" with anyone who shows up.  However, if a fringe lunatic proposes something, it is unlikely to reach consensus among the entire group.  You know.  Like democracy?

It would unless and until the Tea Party rejected their support.

I've yet to see any effort by #occupy to cull itself of its many, many fringe ranks.

That uncomfortable feeling you have is called cognitive dissonance.

For the record, you are associating with known dope zombietime.

Jesus. Even Spysea is better at cut and paste than you are.

Oakland needs to get Sonic and ultrasonic weapons (USW) are weapons of various types that use sound to injure, incapacitate, or kill an opponent. Some sonic weapons are currently in limited use or in research and development by military and police forces. Some of these weapons have been described as sonic bullets, sonic grenades, sonic mines, or sonic cannons. Some make a focused beam of sound or ultrasound; some make an area field of sound. Although many real sonic and ultrasonic weapons are described as "non-lethal", they can still kill under certain conditions. 

So you are calling for a full-blown military assault upon the American citizens across the bay?  Interesting.

You should spend more time reading the Constitution rather than cutting and pasting Wikipedia entries.

Or you know, CRY MOAR NEOCON!

What.

I find it so incredibly strange that so many people insist that its "obviously" agent provacateurs who planted this pamphlet.

Its just as easily a crackpot (which the odd use of language might suggest) or, even *gasp* someone sincere.

I lived in the bay area for many years, and met many activists who believed, however simplistic their view was, in the total revocation of capitalism, and on violent means to obtain that goal. It seems that many who support the occupy movement here are ready to just throw their brains away in order to defend it (And BTW, though I have some ambivalence about it, I support some of the main thrusts against corruption, banker manipulation etc..). Are so many commenters here really unaware of the opinions some activists in the bay have about violence and capitalism that the content of this pamphlet would seem an utterly fantastic fake?

That's one of the many fun things about #occupy: by never taking an affirmative stance on anything (besides ATM fees, from what I understand), they can instantly disclaim any statement or action that goes wrong.

They can claim all the benefit when things go right, but dodge the ill effects when things go bad.  Hmm, is there some other group that people have been describing in similar terms?

Anyone have an example of where this worked in the US in the 1960s and 1970s? Anyone?

Information on the FBI's COINTELPRO program from its own site:

http://vault.fbi.gov/cointel-p...

More background on the program from the peer-reviewed journal "Social Forces":

http://muse.jhu.edu/journals/s...

Useful documentary RE: its use against African-American activists: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

Oh, they certainly *did* it. I just don't see evidence that any previously non-violent groups ever read FBI material and said, "hey, we ought to be violent!"

The FBI has often planted people w/in targeted groups or used informants to encourage or engage in violence, then used this as a pretext for arrests (Brandon Darby is a good example - see: http://www.thisamericanlife.or....  "Democracy Now" also did a program on this recently: http://www.democracynow.org/20....   They've typically used a lot of tools at once to discredit critics, w/leafleting like this being only one.

So, you don't know of any either. Got it. No more links. I got it. The FBI is full of idiots who think this will work and use it was a pretext to arrest people, but so far they have never convinced peaceable protesters to be violent. Thanks.

This looks like classic "agent provocateur" fake propaganda inciting to riot in order to justify repressive responses, and destroy the credibility of the peaceful advocates of change. The FBI was a master of this technique in the sixties, and seventies, but this could be any of a dozen sinister acronyms (NSC, CIA, etc.). Good luck to the real agents of change.

I don't think Occupy Oakland or WS have the cache or effect yet to warrant some sort of devious plot from our government. Might be in the future, but certainly not now. The entire world is not yet watching.

Yes. The FBI totally mastered the technique. See, e.g., the way the protests at . . . uh . . . hmmm. Anyone have an example of where this worked in the US in the 1960s and 1970s? Anyone?

Your lack of this knowledge doesn't make it less real, it only shows your lack of knowledge. Please see Ryan Shepard's response below (thanks, Ryan) and educate yourself about your own history.

The writing style reminds me of something that assclown extraordinaire James O'Keefe would have written. Only right wingers are so obsessed with sex that their every utterance has a violent and sexual overtone. People on the left have actual sex with actual people.

someone needs to fix the reply option for these message boards. 

it's, like, total anarchy in the threads.

Not anarchy. A general assembly.

as long as no one puts out a non-nonviolent manifesto, this general assembly of non-anarchers should be safe.

genius! fight the police, get @ss kicked, use images of getting @ss kicked in mass media without explaining that they were responding to provocation, gain support!

I just ask that you don't:

1) ask me not to ridicule you for getting your head cracked in beat by a superior fighting force2) sue the city for $30M for rightly getting your skull cracked, thereby taking money away from the program that I actually like (schools, parks and rec, maintenance, head start, etc.)

wonder when the paranoia over opposition and govt plants will finally hit the occupy movement

Hi From DCist: We're having a party in November! Use your frequent flyer miles and come have a beer with the hot yogurt enthusiasts!

"come have a beer with the hot yogurt enthusiasts!"

...or have some pudding. We don't discriminate, unless you're pro-cyclist harrassment. In which case, I CUT YOU.

An ist-wide extravaganza!

Sadly, I think that's more likely than a Chicagoist gathering. We're all antisocial and hate each other.

We don't all hate each other. I just hate you and Navin.

I kid because I'm anonymous.

Oh, I know you really only hate Navin. Your taunts of me are merely the equivalent of tugging ponytails, and really you want nothing more than to hop in my little blue icon and go cruising down Lake Shore. Or someplace on the suburban fringe that you pretend is still the city.

Side note: Reading all those DC people has robbed me of any urge to make even a pretense of serious discussion. They have a lot more fun than we do.

Somehow this all plays into Gothamist's evil plan -- we're going to read all the crossposts just to see if the DCists take over the comments.

Oh shit! They're on to us!

Dcist Commentariat will always take over the crossposts. I mean, with our government jobs, none of us are really working that hard.

Well, to be fair, everybody hates Navin.

Not Navin.

He's very (relatively) popular among the holier-than-thou cognoscenti on boing boing.

 Yes we do.

That's not all we'll rob you of.  Just wait until Monkeyrotica's in one of his "moods".

Unrelatedly: replying to the notification solves that problem of being unable to hit "reply" in the thread and lets the response be directed at the proper person.  TMYK.

Not only don't our manhole covers explode, but our cabs are even mostly all licensed. DC is kicking ass and taking names.

Seriously, I mean the L train hasn't had a fatal accident of the non-suicide-y variety since the 70s. Advantage? DC.

I bet their manhole covers don't even explode.

 Does Chicago even have a Spike Mendelsohn level chef to joke about?

I think they have a third tier version of Spike who isn't accidentally-funny enough to make a meme about.

Ah… rational voices of reason. I think this fairly represents the general
tenor of the OWS encampments, crazy and secretly yearning for violent confrontation

My favorite sign by far is “OccupySF=A living example of a better system.” People squatting in a public park, sitting in drum circles bitching about subjects that they have a very minimal understanding of. Yes, a better system.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh...

you lost me when you said, "I think".  I see no evidence of that.

Says the d-bag with nothing to add but lame personal attacks.

I think space-time might rip apart from the utter hypocrisy of that comment.

Seems like you're a great judge of everyone but yourself, avelvetcrush.

The only insults I drop are aimed at the #occupy fools.  I understand that you're part of the mob--and thus get royally butt hurt whenever anyone criticizes your beloved "movement"--but I've never seen you write one thoughtful word in favor of their agenda.

Instead you seem to always pop up, as you have here, dropping lame disses taken from your granny's playbook. You don't see any evidence that Miles was thinking?! Goodness gracious!

is that right, "Brah"?

Actually, I'm a great judge of your insults that are in most every comment you leave on here.

As for nothing to add, I am fairly certain you are not interested in rational debate or facts since in the past, you generally have ignored them or responded with condescending insults.

So, no. I don't have anything to add here since I have come to conclusion, as it seems Obama has, that there's no sense in arguing with a rock.

You and others continually whine, "what do they want? They're just hippies.", then you get numerous people laying out several common themes of what they want and that there's all kinds of people involved. Then you repeat your same flawed statement.

So my judgement is that all you're interested in is pouring gasoline in the comments just for fun.

Violence is by no means a central tenet of most of the occupier's agendas. And discussing issues and allowing public input and public voting is better than paying exorbitant sums of money to get whatever laws you want enacted, so yes it is an improvement though it could use some further improvements.

>> I think this fairly represents the general tenor of the OWS encampments, crazy and secretly yearning for violent confrontation

In your wettest and reddest dreams, yes.

Anyone know what language this pamphlet was originally written in? Because, it isn't English . . . right?

It looks like NuTeaPartish

Why do some people imagine that they can, in any way, battle law enforcement when it comes to violence? There is no competition; the playing field is not level and never will be. Established police forces and military could fart and it would bring down the "Oakland Liberation Front."

There are about 30 east bay anarchist types that make a lot of noise. Annoying, but not much can be done.

I was all ready to apologize, as an Anarchist, for the stupidity of people who use the word but have no right to do so. But then I re-read that pile of dreck and realized they never actually identified as anarchists, which was something of a relief.

Fact is you're far more likely to meet anarchists working at your local food bank or community garden or free school then you are among the angry kids who dress in black and smash things because they're angry and unfocussed. Most of the people the media calls "Anarchists", aren't. And most of the people who do understand that anarchism is about creating an economic and political system based on decentralized horizontal and directly democratic organization are afraid to self-identify as anarchists in public because of the negative media-perpetuated stereotypes we face.

So yes, there is a small group of idiots who call themselves anarchists and constantly advocate and fetishize property destruction and violent confrontation with the police. But they are not, in point of fact, Anarchists. They are Nihlists and they are parasites and we'd all be a lot better without them. But they probably didn't write this. Which is good because it gives me one less reason to hate them.

The Empire's cock can't be all bad.

Without it, we'd never have Luke and Leia.

False. The Empire's cock would belong to Palpatine, and Palpatine had nothing to do with Luke and Leia.

Win.

Hi from Gothamist: None of the union support would likely have joined the Foley Square march if these literally masturbatory violence fantasies had polluted the idea of a general strike. People like me would have gotten a baton to their head long before Occupy Oakland even had a chance to shine like a glorious constitution held against the flash-bangs bursting across the picket lines. Please don't piss your hard work & fantastic sacrifices away by provoking even more violence - clearly it is abundant enough already.    

It's probably a false flag. OccupySF also has a few known "outside agitator" types that they are keeping an eye on. Sad.

I love the smell of pepper spray in the morning.

The writers of this flyer - in addition to their terrible prose - have missed the whole point of a non-violent movement.  It is to respond with non-violence to the system's violence.  Police brutality and the violence of the status quo are illustrated to the observer society through our non-violent response.

The person who wrote this is almost certainly an agent provocateur. 

Is this term the new 'thing'? I am hearing it all over the place lately. Believe it or not here are some people out there who want to smash the state and will hurt and get hurt trying. It's foolish and narrow minded but a very real feeling.

Actually it's a very old "thing" and not surprising. The labor movements, anti-war, civil rights movements, ALL encountered problems with Agents Provocateurs, frequently from Hoover's FBI, but also from Birchers, Pinkertons(company detectives), local cops etc

it's just one more thing to cope with, not a thing to get paranoid about though I guess. As long as we stay non-violent, and stick to the issues...

For the sake of argument, though: but what if responding to violence with non-violence doesn't change anything? What if the larger observer society on whose behalf the security forces act looks at the non-violent response and responds with a collective shrug? If that happens, haven't you accomplished nothing besides creating martyrs?

By the way, it looks like this discussion may soon be a moot point -- according to this article, reps in the House are FINALLY talking about re-instating Glass-Steagall.

I would suggest it is too early in the process to suggest solutions to a failed technique when the technique has not be used long enough to be effective.  Coordinated and entrenched non-violent movements have a history of winning, not losing.  If over the long course of the movement non-violence is not effecting the power structure I am open to revisiting the goals and agenda.  I am non-violent, but not a pacifist.  There is a difference.   

I'm talking more in general terms and not really about how it applies to Occupy Whatever. A quick point, though: it's really hard for a non-violent movement to *become* coordinated and entrenched if the larger observer society is okay with using enough force to break them (another great example, and from a free society, is the Bonus Army of the '30s). This is, of course, true with violent movements as well; that's the whole point of going violent, in fact, to make that society ask itself whether the cost of breaking that movement is worth it.

...but what if responding to violence with non-violence doesn't change anything?

Sure: the massive antiwar demonstrations in the period leading up to the Iraq invasion.

Sorry to point this out, but the anti-war demonstrations didn't have a positive outcome if we eventually invaded Iraq.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.

I think you are correct that in totalitarian regimes non-violence is more difficult to use successfully.  It might be that NV is more successful in pluralistic and (I'm shocking myself by saying this) capitalist systems.  

I think that goes almost without saying. Nonviolence against totalitarian regime works very rarely and in the presence of other conditions (the only two examples I can really think of is the failed Soviet coup of 1991 and, of course, Gandhi; in the first case, the divided loyalties of the army was the decisive factor, and in the second, the fact that the British were experiencing massive imperial overstretch at the time). 

Good point. Though from what I saw, those demonstrations were alarmingly small.

Seems nobody cares about wars until someone they know dies.

Yeah, it fizzled out because of the exact scenario I described in my original post. 

Could be.  Seems like that movement fizzled out disappointingly fast.

Were they? According to the information I've been able to find, between six and ten million people took part in worldwide protests on February 15, 2003 alone.

Westboro Baptist church protesting at soldiers' funerals.

WBC is a violent movement. "God Hates Fags" is violent speech.

Non-violence isn't limited to fists and tear gas. It's about your words and entire approach.

WBC is the same 10 people everytime. Doesn't really qualify on the "large" test.

That's what she said.

To Mr. Eric.

That's hardly a "movement."  It's like 10 people.

11/02/11 - 1:12 PM PT

Great job Eric...  Stuffing that sock in The Colonel's piehole...

As to Jamie's question:

"...haven't you accomplished nothing besides creating martyrs?"

Ask that question to those currently enjoying the positive benefits that the "martyrs" of the Civil Rights movement brought about.

Jamie needs to get a clue...

~Red~

"We do hope that some members of the Occupy Oakland splinter don't devolve into aesthetic gobbledygook more focused on protest fetishization, bandana-wearing and Oscar Granting than they are in maintaing theOccupy Wall Street objective."

Devolve into?  I thought that's where they started.

Also: there's an OWS objective?  Is it a secret, or can you tell?

Do you have an objective with your constant trolling?

Yes: to diss #occupy. At least until it stops being silly.

I suspect Eric's objective is to respond to everything you say.

(rubs supple hands in gleeful anticipation)

I'm his huckleberry. Though he didn't get to be TOP 1 without having the last word with everyone ever.

I think we've veered into your personal fantasies enough for today, Mr. Cutlet.

How was little Veal's halloween?

Maybe MrEric wouldn't ride your dick so much if you didn't keep on slapping it in everyone's face screaming, "Bring it on!"

Bastard.