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SFist received a pressing (albeit insensitive and Nevius-esque) question in the editor's inbox this afternoon. Perhaps you can help? A reader (who asked to remain anonymous) writes:
There are these two horrible drunk hobos who live on my street, and recently they acquired a kitten this morning. The kitten pooped all over their shopping cart, and as I walked past, they were all upset about it.Then the one guy said, "Hang on, I'm gonna more of them free papers." and he took a stack of SF Weekly's to clean up his shopping cart. [Note: This is not a swipe at SF Weekly, alt-weeklies, or the current fight brewing between Mission Mission and SFoodie. -- SFist]
When I walked up to them to ask for the kitty's name, the female hobo's response was this "Hissh name ishhh troublemakerrrrr."
My question is this, I really want to buy the kitten from them. Is that wrong to feel that the homeless aren't the best of pet owners? After all, I would buy it from them. If you offered a falling-down drunk hobo $70, he couldn't say no.
[Name redacted]
Aside from our reader's glaring -- glaring! --lack of sensitivity to hobos, does anyone want to offer their spare change? Do you think it's OK to purchase animals from San Francisco's homeless population?
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Buy it, but bid lower. $20 is the going rate for kitten bacon these days.
I must be awfully jaded, because I'm not seeing a glaring lack of senstivity here.
i was exaggerating a bit. at least, i was trying to.
Is it OK for the homeless to own pets?
lol wut?
yeah, i removed that. bizarre. i blame the heat.
But now where am i gonna channel my inappropriate work generated anger? Someone make a post about the need for vegan buses or fixie-only lanes on mission or something, stat!
*sigh* I guess i can go over to missionmission and wait for someone to say something stupid about that whole creme brulee-ha-ha, or something.
Yes, it's OK for the homeless to have pets.
Yes, it's OK to buy animals from the homeless.
No, it's not wrong to feel that the homeless aren't the best of pet owners. Homeless people tend to have, uh, some pretty obvious obstacles.
Having made money from that transaction, they'll likely get themselves another kitten to sell. I know I would. Then you'll have started a new pet store, but one run by the people least able to care for the animals.
I'd file this one in the same place as paying kidnappers.
As I was waiting for the N home after a run down to the ocean late Sunday afternoon, there was a youngish vagrant-looking guy (have no clue to his housed status) passed out snoring on the handicapped stairwell by the train stop next to an empty plastic handle of Popov, and his (leashed) dog was sleeping by him but every couple minutes would get up and run across Judah, barking and narrowly dodging cars, etc., to go sniff and play with other dogs/people, etc. Finally we went and tied the leash to the rail but I wanted to kick this passed-out fucker in the gut. Who knows when he woke up and/or the dog finlly got some water or something to eat.
Don't get me wrong, I'm sympathetic to the guy's obvious issues, but it seems to me if you can't take care of yourself you shouldn't be allowed to take care of anybody else. The dog might be all he has, but he's doing that dog wrong.
Having a similar problem where I want to rescue/help a dog in my area, one of whose homeless owners is on meth (I think) and violent. Can animal control take dogs away from abusive owners? Of course the owners would probably just get another dog, and the problem would repeat itself, but my heart breaks a little every time I see this poor dog. And I'm too chickens*** to say anything to them.
I personally dont see any moral problem with offering to buy the kitten in this case. I think the problem is less about if its "appropriate" and more about if its spectacularly awkward for one or both of you. Theres a difference between this:
"wow, what a cute kitten, whered you find him?"
"over there"
"i could really give him a good home. Ill trade you $20 for him?"
"sure, i guess"
and this:
"wow, awesome dog, can i take him off your hands. Ill trade you $20 for him?"
"Ive had this dog for five years, hes all i can depend on in the world, you think because im homeless i treat him bad? Fuck you!"
Context is important. As is your willingness to enter into a conversation that could potentially go south. Making the person feel like youre asking because you think theyre going to be shitty owners (which may possibly be true) isnt going to do either of you any good. Theyll prolly say "no, fuck off."
Granted, there are all sorts of economic reasons why owning a pet isnt the best idea for a homeless person. But if the person is caring for the pet, i dont think we have any right to take them away. For some homeless people, especially the oldsters, its one of the few sources of comfort theyve got going for themselves. If we cant restrict having children to only those deemed "deserving" or "capable" by an outside party, i dont think we can do it with pet ownership either.
"but it seems to me if you can't take care of yourself you shouldn't be allowed to take care of anybody else"
Bingo.
I admit to wondering how well these dogs are treated. I soothe myself by considering how many animals are left home alone for 12 hours a day and just think, "well, at least the dog isn't lonely."
Well, we have that. its called Animal Control - simply being homeless doesnt mean you arent going to try and be good to your dog. If you arent, then sure - someone should take over for you.
In this city of passionate dog owners we sometimes forget that dogs in general, are fairly basic creatures. If you feed them, give them love, keep them mostly clean, and play with them, theyre generally good to go, and only one out of five of those has a concrete resource cost (food). Most dogs i know consider a really neat stick to be just as much fun as a kong filled with organic doggy-specific peanut butter.
You can call Animal Control and they will send someone out. I have had to call them about a dog locked in a car on a hot day and they responded fast. If they feel the animal is being neglected they can take the animal. You can then apply to adopt the cat/dog/marsupial. SF ACC is great city agency staffed by very competent caring people who are well versed in dealing with SF's homeless population.
Thank you. I'm putting the number in my phone right now.
marsupials?
Those koala owners are a flaky lot.
If you can't take care of yourself you shouldn't have pets as dependents. Period.
So, if you have kids, and lose your job, we should take them away? I mean, kids cost a hell of a lot more than dogs.
Poor unemployed people lose custody (temporarily or permanently) of their kids every day. A fair number of foster kids come from homes with financial problems.
It's not a matter of money, really.
Some of the primary reasons people end up homeless--addiction, mental illness--are precisely the reasons they make bad pet-owners (or parents).
But what if youre completely batshit crazy...but still take the time to feed your dog and tell him what a good agent of satan he is, and give him ear rubs and take him to the park?
Im just saying removal of custody without demonstrated reason (this dog is underfed, this dog has unattended medical problems, this dog has been socialized to be violent) is bad mojo. I dont think it's in dispute that if your dog is suffering because of your situation, the dog needs a new situation. Im just saying that a homeless owner doesnt always equal a mistreated pet.
Im just saying that a homeless owner doesnt always equal a mistreated pet.
I don't disagree with you there that the homeless aren't inherently bad pet owners, and I don't disagree that their pets should be taken simply because they're homeless.
I just happen to think chances are awfully slim that they can indeed provide for a pet in the way the pet requires (or deserves).
I have seen a child (about 3 years old) tied by their leash to a parking meter in the Marina. Granted, the mom was sitting on the sidewalk patio a few feet away chatting with her friend and drinking coffee (as I found out as I stopped to talk to the kid), but gosh! Money doesn't mean the kid is well taken care of. And I think the same goes for animals.
I find it terribly precious that you think this constitutes bad parenting.
what drives me nuts is those crust punks sitting on haight asking for change all day with puppies that are far too young to have their shots/be on the street yet.
haight is a parvo factory for sure.
Do you want to bring a cat into your life, or do you want to be a hero and save the cat from living outside? Because we all know there's nothing worse than an animal living outdoors.
Hi. Not only is it wrong for homeless -- or hobos or whatever you want to call them today -- to have pets, I think it's irresponsible of us to let them have pets. Look, they can't even hold down a job and put a solid, impermeable roof over their heads, how can they be trusted with the welfare of another living creature? In addition, so many of these people are mentally ill with substance abuse issues. They can't seriously think they can take care of a pet while they're strung out on cheap crack, can they?
I -- as well as the rest of us here, no doubt -- have seen my share of companion animals to the homeless, and I cringe when I see them tied up with bits of rope and being yelled at and/or abused for disobeying a command they never even learned. And heaven knows what those poor animals eat for food! If the homeless want pets, let them go volunteer (or better, work for pay) at a pet shelter.
And no, this comment is not purposely insensitive. It's purposely honest.
Wow. First, not every person who is homeless is a crack addict or mentally unstable. Secondly, just because a person is homeless doesn’t mean s/he is an irresponsible pet owner. There are plenty of people out there who aren’t homeless who treat their pets like crap. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen dogs tied up at bike racks in front of Kezar Pub for hours without food or water, barking constantly, while their owners (who are not homeless) are getting sh*t-faced drunk watching the games.
While volunteering for the humane society, I heard that the homeless often have very healthy pets. This is because they are able to access free veterinary care. Whether this is true, I don't know.
Is it worse to allow homeless to have pets or to allow us to have homeless? Shall we place our guilt correctly?
It's true, the homeless do have access to free animal care through an organization called VET SOS which brings vet care to different locations in SF on the second Friday of each month.
You can read more about the program in this article: VET SOS Gives Pets of the Homeless A Fighting Chance.
YES. If the person is willing to part with the pet, yes. I've almost done the same thing myself when I've seen a very hungry pet. If I didn't already have a 100 lb dog that would get upset, I would do it right away.
Yes buy it. Don't they use pets as devices for people to give them money? I make the decision every year not to have a pet because I feel in my current situation, it would be irresponsible. A homeless person definitely shouldn't have a pet if I can't. I have a full time job and a large apartment and I still don't think it would be fair to have a pet.
or how about you go to the pound and get your own kitten. it's not like there are hundreds of other kittens in need of people in this city, that you have to take one from a homeless person. (and by "it's not like" i mean "it is like")
my perspective is that at least that kitten may get some scraps and some love every once in awhile as opposed to the ones who fend for themselves on the streets or live in cages until they are killed.
let the homeless person have their kitten and you can go save another!
yay! kittens for everyone!
It is completely wrong for homeless people to have pets on the street. Just ask yourself, why are they always "kittens"?
You see about one adult cat for every 20 kittens on the street because their life expectancy is measured in days.
i'm sure the life expectancy of alley cats or cats in shelters is comparable, if not worse. get over your utopian image of the world and get real.
Actually SF SPCA has a "no kill" policy, you should check it out, unless you like to see animals suffer.
crusties ='s hobo's?
if so, they always have mutts with bandanas around their neck.
My personal opinion is that if you have a child and are on public assistance that you need to go to the doctor to get fixed so you do not bring any more children into the world. I'm really tired of seeing these welfare cases who don't know how to keep their legs closed with five kids from ten different daddies and zero means of supporting any of them.
Oh wait, we were talking about a homeless kitten shitting and some bored 60yr old woman with a personal moral dilemma. Kittens grow up to be cats, cats eat rodents and dumb, slow birds. The cat will be just fine as it likely has a higher IQ and better instincts than either of its very temporary human balls of yarn.
All I know is that Cesar Milan says that homeless people have the happiest dogs because they do a lot of walking around like a pack, scavenging, I guess things dogs would do if we didn't carry them around in purses and coo over them like they're babies.
I mean, he's the actual dog WHISPERER, so you know, it's like that.
Before I read all of the other posts,
I stopped reading when Brock chimed in a second time to comment he deleted something from is raw draft.
As a former homeless person, dang I had enough trouble keeping myself alive on the streets at night and day , let alone fed ... drunk and stoned.
Having lived in an SRO and lost a cat to a fire, I can say I still wish I had my cat. Though now I won't own or be a guardian to another pet. While it would give me comfort and joy like Gremlin did, it would break my heart to have to lose another.
Sometimes I wonder ....