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People who move to SF from other states love to complain about San Francisco's lack of decent pizza and bagels. To which we say: Arinell's and House of Bagels. But the whiners do have a point. What is it about San Francisco, the alleged food mecca of the universe, that we can't come up with tasty, inexpensive, savory-based carbs? Pizza and bagels, which should be cheap as well as widely available, should be a cinch.
But allow us to focus on the latter. Our sister site asked: is there a best bagel in New York City? What we want to know is: can we find a decent bagel in San Francisco?
Off the top of our head, we can safely say that Katz Bagels (606 Mission) has a decent selection, not to mention AMAZING spreads with which to pair. (Chive, cucumber, scallions, vegetable, etc.) Also, there was Izzy's on Townsend and Third, but a new owner re-imagined the place, and now their idea of cream cheese spreading is, at best, paper-thin.
On an ungastronomic note, Happy Donuts offers gargantuan-sized "bagels" that are soft, squishy, and plush to the touch. While they aren't authentic, they sure are tasty and filling. (Personally, we love any food that's aggressively bastardized beyond recognition; we would be more than content to exchange a couple of dollars for a nacho-flavored bagel.)
So, readers, let us know of your secret bagel whereabouts. We want the good stuff. (Note: suggestions of "artisan bagels" will be violently frowned upon.)
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There simply are no good bagels in SF. I looked for years and found nothing. NOTHING!
Yep, SF does not measure up to NYC in the bagel category. Katz's is OK; House of Bagels is very poor.
Actually, San Francisco has lots of great pizza and more great places are opening all of the time. Arinell's is not one of those places (unless you are drunk).
crossroads cafe on delancey street has h&h bagels from new york.
i have not found a better bagel in this town.
That's cheating.
well they finish cooking them locally. the dough is flash frozen.
This reminds me of a certain article from Wired where they state:
"It costs $482.79 to get a decent pizza in San Francisco — $17 for the pie, $85 for cab fare, and $378.80 for the flight to New York."
I used to live 2 blocks from H&H and the bagels were 25 cents a piece. Thank you, no more looking and now for the pizza.
The answer is "none."
Easy answer. Miller's East West Delicatessen on Polk Street near Washington.
This is one. And there's a place in the Richmond - dammit I forget the name - I think on Cal around 20th. Someone help me out here. Jewish place, for sure.
Roland's on lower Haight. They are unlike any bagel I've had. I'm not from the East Coast so I can't compare. But Roland's are not fluffy or "plush". The olive oil - rosemary is my favorite.
^^^^ This guy knows whats up. Rolands.
Yes Rolands is off to a good start! My NJ taste buds approve.
tasty bagels, sure. but $1.75 for a bagel?! that is ridiculous. i can't afford to breakfast there.
It's the water or as we would say in Philly, wooder.
House of Bagels by far the best bagels in SF. Plus they get some points for their breads and traditional pastries (hamentaschen, mandelbrot) and for carrying a small line of traditional Jewish frozen foods and drinks.
This is the most authentic NY/East Coast bagel place here.
Miller's is the best deli, reminds my mom of the delis from her childhood in NY.
IME pizza opinions from someone who grew up on the west coast are worthless. They don't have even the beginning of a useful frame of reference to use in judging pizza.
i could not agree more.
I, ah, cut my teeth so to speak on House of Bagels, so that's the best here. I lived in New York where all bagels are not boiled equally. Had a lot of mediocre ones, but the best ones were from H&H up in the Upper West Side, the 70s I think, and the bagel place (can't remember the name) on First Ave just below 14th St.
In SF, though, it's House of Bagels.
We used to have Noah's bagels and that was OK. I like Nizario's pizza on 18th - it's too skanky to eat inside, but it's good for take away.
"What is it about San Francisco, the alleged food mecca of the universe, that we can't come up with tasty, inexpensive, savory-based carbs? Pizza and bagels, which should be cheap as well as widely available, should be a cinch."
Either -
A) We do have those things, they're called burritos, served in a uniquely San Francisco way and west coast transplants in NY constantly whine about not being able to get a decent black bean burrito.
OR
B) We're too fucking snobbish to put any effort into the simple pleasures. Everything MUST be cutting edge, upscale, revolutionary, Bay Area-ey, what have you. We have an image to uphold and God forbid anyone acknowledge that pizza and bagels DO actually make life worth living.
Bagels? Easy. Best ones in SF (if you like NY style) are at House of Bagels and Roland's.
Pizza? Little more complicated. Best NY-style pizza in SF is Arinell's, but Gioia in Berkeley blows it out of the water. Well worth the trek over the bridge and into the bowels of North Berkeley. SF does have a fair amount of great pizza, though. You just have to move away from trying to compare it to NY's (which will, of course, always be the best). Pizzeria Delfina and Pizzeria Picco (in Larkspur, so I'm cheating) both serve up great fresh and well-charred pie.
Rainer has the right idea. Roland's Bagels in the Lower Haight are great. I crave these on weekend mornings. Sesame may be my favorite.
A16 for pizza. I'm not holding this to NYC standards, but to Naples standards, which supercedes the East Coast's authority.
Fuck NYC. Sure they've got good pizza and bagels, and a shitload of crappy ones too, which New Yorkers surely wouldn't want to claim.
Pizza: The newly opened Pi Bar on Valencia is trying to do a decent imitation of NY pizza, and largely succeeding.
Bagels: oh god. It's a vast wasteland. Anyone who points to Katz's as "good" has had their taste buds amputated. Posh and Noahs are the 8th and 9th circles of hell, respectively. Holey Bagel on 24th in Noe would maybe on their best day pass muster as a thoroughly mediocre bagel in NYC, and are thus by default the best bagels in SF, not that I recommend it unless you're completely desperate.
a) noah's aren't bagels. they're bread. period.
b) i like manhattan bagels, which can be found (amongst other places) at oakside cafe (oak @ broderick)
c) arinell's for DAMN sure. hell, maybe i'll head out for a slice RIGHT. NOW.
House of Bagels, +1
Brock-
Don't bury the lead. That serious eats taste test was interesting in that it identified a potential cause of the "these aren't like NY" problem. And I agree that it's not too much of a problem anyway. NY bagels are typically fresher. Most of the "good" places in SF bake all day so you're almost always ensured of getting a fresh one, especially if you ask. A lot of SF places bake in the morning and that's it. Think of coffee - Peet's turns over their drip every 30 minutes.
oops, meant to say most of the "good" places in NY bake all day.
I'm sorry folks, but Arinell's just plain sucks. And yes I've had many, many slices in NYC. Pi Bar seems pretty good so far, but it's more of a sit down type place. I can't think of any pizza place in SF that really deserves to be considered.
As for bagels, Noah's bagels is a total joke. really horrible. But I'll also put in my vote for Holey Bagel. As mentioned before, it's fairly tolerable. With maybe Noe Bagel down the street, or Katz's bagels on 16th as distant 2nds. I have not tried House of Bagels, so I'll have to get on that pronto.
Noe, Holey, Katz and Noah's all use the same recipe for shit. You have obviously never had a good bagel.
@many's: ummm, if you had ever had both a Katz's and Noahs you would realize that they are made entirely differently. Whether they measure up to NYC bagels is a different question (Noah's don't).
point taken, but they're still all crap. and for the record, i'm more of a montreal fan (as others noted below). nothing so far in my travels has compared to the bagels from that 24hr no-table place in MTL, whatever it's called. heck, there's probably more than one, but this one had a line out the door at 3am. probably still more than one. anyway, it was a mind-scrambler.
Best pizza in SF used to Greco-Romana (defunct for some years now, sadly). Now my favorite is Di Napoli's in South City.
Holey Bagel on 24th. Katz's is like white bread from Safeway. yuck.
Pizza - Little Star, though a recent trip to Champaign Illinois proved that it really is a pale imitation of the real thing.
I think we're talking about NY Style pizza which, despite the similarity in name, is a COMPLETELY different beast.
Besides, I still prefer Zachary's wheat crust over little star's cornmeal. I won't compare it to the true Chicago pie, but whatever it is it is mighty tasty.
The only reason people think Arinell's is good, besides wanting to fit in, is that they're usually drunk when they have it.
I think you're on to something here
Well that and you get a huge slice for $2.50.
yeah, a huge slice of crap!
to be honest, I'd rather go next door to Cable Car, and that's saying something.
Bagels on the West Coast are bread donuts. Rumor has it the trick is to add malt to the boiling water, which adds that crunch lacking entirely in SF 'bagels.' Montreal, btw, is the true North American capitol of The Bagel.
Indeed! Montreal has the best bagels.
"What is it about San Francisco, the alleged food mecca of the universe, that we can't come up with tasty, inexpensive, savory-based carbs? Pizza and bagels, which should be cheap as well as widely available, should be a cinch."
mumbles got it right... its the water in the greater NYC area that gives the bread products there (bagels, pizza, rye bread, etc) the delicious taste and consistency that is so legendary.
and yeah, maybe they got bagels and pizza, but we have burritos and sourdough...
bagels >>>> sourdough.
I've never had a taste for the stuff.
[Pizza > Burritos, but that's more debatable]
House of Bagels on Geary Street. http://houseofbagels.com
Good stuff and lines out the door practically on weekends.
House of Bagels is where it's at! And have you tried their hamentashen? So yummy.
House of Bagels in San Francisco (it's been too long since I've tried Katz; Noah's does NOT make bagels at all).
IZZY in Palo Alto on California street is my Bay Area fav.
Art
Izzy's is the only place in the entire bay area that makes real bagels. But it's not in SF so I guess it doesn't count.
Ugh. We've resorted to bringing bagels back from the East Coast and freezing them (the freeze very very well) when ever we go home. We've tried House of Bagels and that Boogie Woogie Bagel Boy in Berkeley and have been completely unimpressed. Nothing compares to my beloved NJ/NYC/Long Island bagels... Mini sesame bagel with scallion cream cheese.... so good. Even a below average NY bagel spot has better bagels than the best bagel spot in SF. Hell, even Dunkin' Donuts has better bagels!
We've had some success using the chowhound homemade bagel recipe.
As for Pizza, Arrinell is the most authentic to the NY by-the-slice/hole-in-the-wall style. Gioia in Berkeley is more of a "Bay Area Interpretation of East Coast Pizza" I'm sorry, no one back East puts asparagus, blue potatoes, or Grana Padano on their $2.50 pizza slice.
Dunkin Donuts most certainly does not have better bagels. Give me a break.
I never really fully realized until this thread how much SF insufferability is actually NYC insufferability.
The Bagelry on Polk Street is pretty good.
ALL I HAVE TO SAY IS WHY DONT ANY OF THESE BAGEL PLACES FRY AN EGG, COOK SOME BACON, SLAP SOME CHEESE ON THAT ISH AND SERVE IT UP NY DELI STYLE....I AM DROOLING JUST THINKING ABOUT IT......
word. i concur. and screw the bagels- they won't get it right, i'll take that bacon, egg and cheeze on a roll. oh and for less than 4 dollars please.
crossroads does that
Bagels are hard to come by, it's true. I will have to try some of the suggestions here.
However, outstanding pizza is readily available, some might even say ubiquitous. Those who disagree have been taken in by the myth that New York Pizza is somehow better than the delicious pizzas we have here. This myth is patently false. It's simply one of those falsehoods that people choose to believe, like American beer isn't good, or that all French food is good.
I'm glad my palate isn't refined enough to bitch about food the way people always can. Most thin pizza tastes like New York Pizza to me, and most bagels taste the same, varying most often only in hardness/softness. What's there to whine about?
The best bagels in the west come from Los Bagels way up in Humboldt County. Everything in the city, is just a roll with a hole. We bake and boil our bagels, they are dense and chewy as a bagel should be. Check out http://www.losbagels.com ...and have some shipped down to SF today. Or better yet, quit the rat race and move up the coast and become a regular. Hasta La Proxima