BART Cop Smashes Drunk Dude's Head Through Glass
Asm. Tom Ammiano On Glass Breaking BART Cop
Parents Petition Caltrain to Reduce Train Speed In Palo Alto
Don't Dump Unwanted Stuff On City Sidewalks
Gavin Newsom's Mariah Carey-like Interview Demand
On Tuesday, after getting into a minor dust up with Army Corps of Engineers division leader Brigadier General Michael Walsh over Hurricane Katrina cleanup, Barbara Boxer corrected him over something minor:
"Could you say 'senator' instead of 'ma'am? It's just a thing. I worked so hard to get that title. I'd appreciate it."
Who on God's green earth does Senator Barbara Boxer think she is, Diana Ross?
Anyway, Babs was henceforth referred to as "Senator" by the General.
add to stumble upon
add to reddit
tweet this
post to facebook
Right f'king on lady! I would do the same, I presume she had to refer to him by his title.
Ugh, her tone.
My guess is she addressed him properly. He should do the same.
Anyone who calls me m'am does so at his own peril anyway.
I know: I hate it when people have manners as well. They are so rude and insulting.
It's not manners to refer to a senator as m'am. It's demeaning, and I had a feeling he meant it to be so.
Besides, everyone knows m'am is code for old person.
Pfft. Barbara has a long way to go before she can match the clueless, egomaniacal stupidity of Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee. ("I am a queen, and I demand to be treated like a queen!")
Glad she was obviously paying attention to the important matter at hand--her title as opposed to the little matter of post-Katrina cleanup.
How does she not know that the whole "sir/ma'am" thing is a military thing, not a matter of personal disrespect.
meh. seems like she has earned it through three elections.
And by the way, I don't know if you remember the timeline of events but the Army Corps of Engineers screwed the pooch on Katrina.
How on earth is calling someone "ma'am" an insult? I would love to know. I know that my grandmothers expected that out of me (and anyone else that they came in contact with). It is a matter of simple common courtesy.
Now yes, Boxer has a right to be called Senator, I agree with her- and she did earn it. But to act so condescendingly was in poor taste.
Civility and politeness are vanishing for the most part.
It's all about context. If he had run into her in the grocery store or at the park or on the street, ma'am would be entirely appropriate. Sitting in the Capitol building discussing business in her role as Senator, it's appropriate for him to address her as such.
I grew up in the South where ma'am was and is considered polite and friendly. But in government where women have had to fight hard to be represented, using "ma'am" instead of "Senator" comes across sounding condescending.
At least she wasn't pointing to her senatorial lapel pin whist being arrested for soliciting a Dean Freedman in an airport mens room.
It's all about her, you know. "I worked so hard..." Nothing about her constituents, or her campaign team, or the people the Corps of Engineers is trying to serve.
I was actually raised that way, too. And I refer to people by sir and m'am. But not if they have a greater title like Senator or General.
But hey, at least she didn't go all Carole Migden on his ass and shriek "I'm a SENATOR!!!!" and then snatch a piece of half-eaten ham off someone else's plate.
After all, "ma'am" is only used when you want to address clear social inferiors, like, for example, the Queen of England.
Really, Senator Boxer, get over self.
I seriously doubt said general, who as a career military man knows exactly how to address people by their correct titles, has ever called a male senator "Sir." "Ma'am" stinks of sexism.
Actually more then likely he does. If I a not mistaken in the military its usually customary to refer to people of higher rank as Sir or Ma'am. Hence the saying "Yes Sir!".
I did not hear the whole hearing so I would not know if he called the male senators Sir, if, he was only calling Boxer Ma'am *MAYBE* she had a case. But I doubt it.
I dont think three elections mean crap, for some reason we elector her but pretty much she is the lest heard from senator. Actually the two of them are pretty much unknown outside of DC. For being the largest state the two of then should do more.
ever hear "yes, sergeant"?
I agree. If the general called the male senators "Senator," then Boxer might have cause for feeling a bit rankled. But otherwise, seriously? Why do this? Why make the case that women are hypersensitive? Christ. In the military, the protocol is to address superiors as "sir" or "ma'am." It really is that simple.
Exactly. It's a point of protocol. And military officers are kind of sticklers about official procedure. Barbara Boxer is not in the armed forces. Furthermore, the setting was not a military one, but an institution which specifically supersedes it.
She holds the office of United States Senator, a rank higher than any military officer, period. One addresses senators, professors, judges, generals, by their title. When you're in a hospital, you don't say to the man in the white lab coat holding a stethoscope, "Excuse me, sir?" You say, "Excuse me, doctor?"
Boxer meet the pasture ..
Comments 2, 4, 8, 10, 16 ... sexist.
Don't make me bust out the Sorkin.
Better that than Dworkin.
Ugh, your tone.
And I suppose you found the transition away from "nigger" rather gauche. Labels = much ado.
Still, the march of progress, etc.
Well, I was joking around before, but fuck you. Don't cast any aspersions on me.
Bullseye. If you dislike that aspersion, then you should stop doing the thing I'm aspersing you for. Sotomayor is "abrasive" but Scalia is "pugilistic". You're put off by "her tone" etc. I'm not calling you racist; I'm calling you sexist. (How telling that one gets a rise out of you, but the other doesn't.)
If it wasn't Boxer, but instead, say, the male Senator from Alabama, this wouldn't even be a news story. Having touched a nerve, maybe now you're open to the subtext of what Boxer was getting at vis-a-vis military culture's checkered history with women as superiors.
Whether she's right or wrong, male or female or hermaphrodite, her tone was shitty.
I won't apologize for thinking that, whatever some blathering thin-skinned self-appointed guardian of female-kind thinks.
Yeah, absolutely. As the self-depreciation in her second sentence clearly indicates. And the statement of appreciation in the 4th.
Jackass.
Keep fighting the good fight.
You're doing God's Work here.
Prat.
Well, if you're going to resort to religious phraseology, you really owe it to yourself to check out some right-wing websites and see whether your views on this incident align with theirs or mine.
But thanks for playing.
I'm not sure why you think I would care what those nutbags think. That said, I'm also a little curious when I said she shouldn't have been addressed as senator. Maybe you started imagining things in your paroxysms of sputtering self-righteous indignation.
Gloria Steinem, Betty Friedan, Angela Davis...and Generic, ladies and gentleman.
Let me spell it out: You should care what those nutbags think because your views are identical to those of the nutbags'.
Wait, nobody got the "A Few Good Men" reference?
I got it. See "Sorkin."
I thought it was Madame Senator in the 3rd person or Senator when addressing directly in session. Decorum is decorum, peeps. The outside world ain't the innnernets.
I don't think he meant to belittle her at all by calling her ma'am, however I'm sure she was more than likely following protocol by calling him General and it's entirely reasonable to ask that he show her the same respect by calling her Senator.
Ah, OK, gee, since you "spelled it out," I FINALLY get it now! Because I think a woman's tone was shitty, I'm a sexist, apparently on par with those wo would call Senator Boxer a "bitch" and a "cunt" and despise the very thought of a member of the fairer sex being in such a position of power in the first place!
Thanks for enlightening us, Generic. I'm sure women across the world are extremely appreciative of your efforts as a white male to act as arbiter to what is and isn't sexist, especially your position where the concept that a woman could even possibly be wrong in her actions is unthinkable.
Keep patrolling that gender-line, and have a nice weekend, paternalistic cracker!
You can keep flailing in the snark, but you're still not grasping the substance of our disagreement yet. You're a sexist because you perceive her "tone" as out of line, uncalled for, repugnant -- in a word, "ugh". It's that simple.
Keep backtracking on whether she's right on the merits. It was the exact same line of attack on Sotomayor right out the gate. "Forget whether she's right or wrong. She just has a bad attitude. That way we don't have to focus on what she's saying, just the way she's saying it." We see this animus directed toward women in positions of power all the time. I know you "won't apologize for thinking that" but you damn well should. If the line from "ugh" to "cunt" isn't clear, google "Pelosi".
And your ad hominems are pretty frail. See, I can do it too:
Pretty weak tea, no? Just cut & paste a couple of nouns.Your comments are especially regrettable after one parses Boxer's language and sees it for how diplomatic it actually is. A request:
Not a command to "Call me 'senator'." Then a downplaying of the request: Followed by drollery: Then a pre-emptive expression of thanks: Christ, what more do you want? Exactly what would you consider an acceptable tone, as befits a sitting Senator?"Gee, General ... I feel embarrassed to ask ... but if it's not too much trouble ... could you maybe possibly kinda consider calling me a Senator? ... that is if it's not too inconvenient for you? You don't have to make up your mind right away ... oh gosh, forget I asked."
Or would you prefer your female Senators to be even more ingratiating when addressing their (male) subordinates?
Your word count: 379
Joel's word count: 3
Oh I know the assortment of letters is taxing, aj. Best not to do it too much.
"My name ain't 'Ma'am', it's 'Barbara'. 'Senator Boxer', if you're nasty."
bruiser FTMFW!