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The San Francisco Board of Supervisors yesterday enacted the toughest law in the nation with regard to mandatory recycling and composting, and within two years business owners and landlords could have pay fines of up to $500 for failing to follow guidelines.
There is a moratorium on fines until 2011, giving everyone a chance to catch up and learn how to use the blue and green bins. It's estimated that 36% of what the city sends to landfills is compostable and another 30% is recyclable, and currently only about 22% of the city's large apartment buildings have composting bins. If the concept of composting remains confusing to you, and since it is liable to freeze the uninitiated in their tracks, the Chron offers this helpful tip: "Start with easy things -- orange peels, coffee grounds, eggshells -- to get the hang of it."
Thanks Chron! We suppose only black diamond-level composters should feel ready to toss entire heads of lettuce or grape stems in there! Baby steps, people.
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About 75% of what I throw away could be composted. When I brought this up to my HOA, they kind of laughed me off. Now at least they'll listen!
NO.
Just, no.
There's a fiscal crisis. Services are being cut all around the city. Fees are going up for everything the city can get its hands on. And the Board of Supervisors wastes its time on THIS? Compost?
We already pay well in excess of what other cities pay for our gold-plated three-bin garbage service. Now they want us to stink up our kitchens too, and potentially attract ants and other vermin? Just so the supervisors can say they've done something for the precious environment?
No way. The nanny state needs to stop somewhere. I say it stops here.
Hell to the YEAH! Gov, stay out of my life!
BTW, I DO compost, just don't want yet more stupid intrusions into people's lives.
It doesn't stink. I expected it would, a little, but it doesn't.
Anaerobic decay stinks. Kitchen compost containers don't, as long as you don't make them completely airtight and never open them up.
doesn't stink, no ants and it free.
I get tired of San Francisco's politicians, who insist on proposing some sort of law, then propose "fines" as a way to enforce 'em. This is akin tok LOLSupervisor Jake McG's plan to fine the shit out of people for leaving their bins out for more than a few hours.
Why not instead create a plan that would reward people for doing so, and find a way to use all that compost locally, at parks , city open areas, etc? Get volunteers to teach apartment building dwellers and offices the benefits of such behvavior and if they comply, knock off a few bucks off their trash bill, as the City could use that compost LOCALLY. Try than first, then fines later if they insist on using the court and crime system as a tax collector.
It seems to me though that such an approach would require a lot more time than a press conference-happy politician (or in this case politicians) might like,
Greg Dewar - voice of reason. People respond to discounts better than fines. See "Fastrak users get a $1 discount on the GG Bridge", not "Cash users pay a $1 fine"
really? is composting that hard for you?
why would you have more ants, etc. from compost than if you threw it in the trash?
maybe you need to learn to take your recycling/trash/compost more often if you're having such a bug problem.
I'm perfectly capable of it. I just think this is a moronic thing for the government to be enforcing.
In small apartments, where there's really just room for one trash can and maybe a paper bag or two of bottles, an icky milk carton full of rotting compost is NOT a path to cleanliness, nor sweet-smelling-ness.
But the supervisors don't give a shit, preferring to legislate my behavior in order to feel better about their footprint on this lovely earth of ours. Everything is easier, from the supervisors' perspective, when you crack down on landlords and homeowners, since they're easy to find and the city already has a billing relationship.
Of course tenants wouldn't pay - the landlords would, despite being unable to enforce any rules like this on their tenants.
I have a better idea: fine the people who actively, every day, trash our sidewalks with real, actual trash. Then the city might actually be cleaner.
"It's a false phobia that things are going to smell," Reed said. "It's the same garbage you already had, it's just handling it differently, in a more environmentally responsible way."
Lets see... business and home owners; landlords will be responsible. Sorry - won;t fly here in SF where sooo many people rent. landlords would have no way of enforcing their tenants to do this. Just not going to happen. sorry. I do like the incentive program.
I remember not too long ago trying to get coffee grounds from my local peets and struggling to do so. They would forget, they would throw other trash in, they would throw it out, etc. etc. Well, now they offer it up and encourage people to pick it up. Oh how times have changed! (and yes, change is good)
We don't need this "nanny" bullshit law. Just wait until someone complains that their neighbor took revenge or some random person on the street threw the wrong trash in your three bins on trash pickup day.
which bin does dog fur go into?
Which bin does Gavin's used-up hair gel go into? :-P
you guys are all so negative. composting is good for landfills, for farms that get the compost to grow fruits and vegetables, and for your trash bins.
how hard is it to put the ends of your lettuce in a different bin/paper bag/whatever?
you guys all want to live in a progressive city but when the city actually makes progressive steps, you freak out. can't have it both ways.
I separate my compost and recycling religiously, but every Thursday night after we put out our garbage, at least half a dozen people pick through it for anything that might be of interest. Many of them do this by going through the recycling bin, and keeping the "good" stuff and throwing the "bad" into the regular garbage. Since our garbage pickup occurs within a 3 hour window from about 3 a.m.-7a.m., it's not feasible to just get up early and put it out then.
Thankfully, I don't think anyone goes through the compost, but seriously, sometimes there is nothing left in the recycling bin after it's been picked over.
yeah people go through our recycling too. yesterday on my way to work i said good morning to someone doing it. i guess if they made a big mess or whatever, i'd be more offended but they don't. so i don't really care.
Well, that's great for you that people don't mess up your trash, but they do mess up mine, and everyone else's on my block. I was already unhappy that this undermines my careful recycling efforts, but will be doubly so if I get fined for it, too.
And you know that SF will NEVER fine these guys.
No I DON't want to live in a "progressive" City. I'd prefer to live in a city that focuses on good public transportation, repaving roads and providing cost effective services. I love SF. I hate the BOS. And save the "go move back to your red state" rants for someone who came from a red state.
since you have all the answers, maybe you should run for office!
This was actually a Newsom proposal. The supes just approved it.
One man's progressive is another man's intrusive.
Poor kid got a toy compostables-bin for Christmas.
Just to add another bit of actual facts to this discussion, San Francisco actually *sells* its compost, much of it to farms and vineyards in the region. So I'm not sure a mandate would actually cost the city any more money especially as the Chron article indicates they weren't planning to hire more people to handle enforcement .. so it means some (many? most?) people will actually compost, a few won't who may or may not get fined. Plus, less non-composted or non-recycled "trash" means less goes into actual landfills which the city does have to pay for. So I think likely it will be at worst revenue neutral.
As for everyone crying that the government mandates too many things ("nanny state" is the phrase I hear most often), do you consider it wrong and interfering for the government to mandate fuel economy standards in an effort to decrease pollution? It's exactly the same issue (just on a local scale).
RachelL:
There's a fine line between making and enforcing laws that are good for everyone, and ones that are just too "goody goody." The city crossed the line with this garbage sorting stuff; voluntary efforts are perfectly fine when this city has the highest recycling rate in the ENTIRE NATION.
and it can always be better. my upstairs neighbors are TERRIBLE at sorting their recycling. since we all share the same trash/recycling/compost bins, we got a nasty note about it from our garbage collectors.
and THIS is what crosses the line in your book? what silly hyperbole.
Akit-
Whats the legal definition of "goody goody?" - Should we be running policies through "Akit's Department of The Relative Value He Places On Things" to determine this?
Several people have made a good point-
This is all garbage you already had in your apartment/house/building/garage/igloo waiting for garbage day.
For everyone who is freaking out about "storing rotten food" - what are you doing with your food scraps now? Burning them? Vaporizing them with a giant laser? No, youre probably throwing them in your garbage with the rest of the stuff that isnt recyclable. Throwing all your garbage away together doesnt make it smell less. If youre concerned about smells get a container with a tight lid, and some lysol.
The city isnt mandating you start a compost pile in your kitchen. The city just wants you to set your compostable garbage aside so THEY can do it.
Several people have made a good point-
*This is all garbage you already had in your apartment/house/building/garage/igloo waiting for garbage day.*
For everyone who is freaking out about "storing rotten food" - what are you doing with your food scraps now? Burning them? Vaporizing them with a giant laser? No, youre probably throwing them in your garbage with the rest of the stuff that isnt recyclable. Throwing all your garbage away together doesnt make it smell less. If youre concerned about smells get a container with a tight lid, and some lysol.
The city isnt mandating you start a compost pile in your kitchen. The city just wants you to set your compostable garbage aside so THEY can do it.
Sorry Akit - SFist's commenting system is totally retarded. Didnt mean to post that twice in your thread.
I hate the smell of rot, so I just put all my food scraps in a compostable bag (paper or one of those bags made from corn if you want to get fancy) and put them in the fridge or the freezer until pickup day. No smell! Easy peasy.
The City can't have my food scraps. I feed them to my worms. Soon I will have tens of thousands of worms and I will unleash them on Akit for his styrofoam loving blasphemy.
Send it my way!
Composting in a small apartment isn't that big of a deal. I lived in Oakland where composting bins were implemented a few years ago. The city gave everyone a composting pail (covered). But I found one online with a carbon block on the lid ($20 or so). It really worked. It didn't smell. I used the biobags inside but you don't have to.
Inserts are essential for smaller bins.
In a pinch, activated charcoal aquarium filters work wonders. Plus they're often easier to find. Just tape one or two to your bin's lid.
Its a little annoying to have to buy ANOTHER trash bin. I have two in my tiny, tiny kitchen already. I don't have a great deal of real estate in my kitchen for all these trash bins, which is annoying.
Also, now I have to go out and buy (1) an airtight bin to deal with smell issues, and (2) what I can only imagine are expensive compostable trash bags. I suppose I won't starve, but its an annoying addition to the already expensive cost of living here.
Also, those saying that the smell isn't an issue because it was going in the trash anyway are ignoring the concentration issue. I.e. when you throw leftover pizza (or whatever) in a trashcan, its no like its completely filled with other food products. The smell is distributed across the non-compost stuff.
Anyway, I find the whole thing slightly annoying.
The point of the complaints about the nanny state is that we're letting the government come into our homes and limit our freedoms, based on what they find Virtuous Behavior! You don't find that appalling? Especially because people use the same "virtue" argument (albeit a different kind of "virtue") to, say, ban alcohol, or gay marriage or tell unmarried couples they can't live together, or tell women they can't have access to safe abortions.
I left my hometown and my church to get away from orthodoxy, and now here I am smack-dab in the middle of more of the same, and the same desire by the government to invade my private life.
And then if that doesn't horrify you (because, after all, you agree it's virtuous and "good for us"), you should pay attention to the points already made: the city is in no way in working order (rampant public drug use, public transportation that doesn't work, the high crime rate). How can garbage be a government priority?
Our landlord currently doesn't have a compost bin available because, when we asked for one, he insisted that there isn't enough room for one. He's more or less right. There's just enough room for the two recycling bins and one trash bin... however he also has a ton of old crap stored in the same area which, if cleared out, would definitely leave the room.
I don't really care enough to make an issue of it, but my girlfriend seems to believe that an acceptable solution is collecting compost separately and then when trash is collected taking it out in the morning and leaving it someone else's bin that has room. I find this to be slightly insane.
Regardless while this is certainly well-intentioned it's also far above what needs to be done. As others have said if you want people to compost or recycle more try to reward them for doing so and provide positive reinforcement. Don't make it mandatory and threaten to fine them if they don't comply with your hardline agenda.
As for being in your home already while it depends strongly on your apartment while some people would have put it in the trash I'm sure a lot of others would have run it down the disposal if they have one. It doesn't really smell if you have only a small bin, take it out frequently, and put large items directly outside, but I'm almost certain that in our case it attracted flies who since started breeding.