Vigil for Murdered Abortion Doctor Tonight at SF City Hall

My mom had that shirt.

Yeah, but he was primarily an abortionist.

No, Generic, he was not "primarily" an abortion doctor. I'm sure you know this, but i'll offer it up to those who may be tuned in.

There is no such thing as "an abortion doctor". There are Ob GYNs. There are MD's. There is no degree or credential that the AMA issues that says "abortion doctor" .

He dealt with women's health, broadly and compassionately. He was a OB GYN. Show some fucking respect.

And Brock? You're wrong on this. The term pro-choice means everything to me and many others. It's true that we have evolved other terms- (I like anti-criminalization)- and while we may use other terms, pro choice has meaning and a history and a political trajectory. It may be moth balled one day, but it isn't going to be because it get dismissed out of hand by the editor of a news blog. The term pro choice is remarkable because it provided and cleared sorely needed political space at a time when women were dumping lye down their cunts and dying in emergency rooms.

It deserves respect as do the women and men who choose to use it.

I know you don't think abortion should be criminalized, but for christ sakes, man, we are having a moment here. A big fucking, grief-stricken moment. There are people in this town who knew this man, who worked with him. There are people in this town who provide abortions. This act brings home the real danger that they will be shot. It brings home the danger that women like myself, who have publicly discussed their abortions and the reasons for them will be shot.
So listen instead or react. Okay?

With love.

Oh sure, I'll play your reindeer games.

He was an abortionist. Look it up. Him and Vera Drake had a thing in common.

Working in a medical clinic which provides Family PACT services to the under- and uninsured, I'm fully aware of the difference between a term of rhetoric and medical degree. You are not, it seems.

As for showing some respect, I'm too busy canvasing the ghettos of Oakland on foot, counseling young men and women on the difference between NuvaRings and IUDs. So please Suki, when I tell you to fuck off, I mean it in the sincerest, most heartfelt manner possible.

Even the most pro-choice, pro-abortion person such as myself concedes that his OB GYN work was not at issue here. It's a like an executioner with his hand on the switch saying, "Hey, I'm just a corrections officer." Call the thing by its name.

It's simply not a term not to be shied away from. Kevorkian does shy away from "euthanasist"; it's what he does. He doesn't concede to Orwellian dodges. And we shouldn't either.

And trying to shame me doesn't honor the victim of a political assassination.

With love. In struggle.
Etc.

Yes, he was an abortion doctor. He provides abortions. This is a political distinction, not a matter before the AMA. Keep up.

Messianic? It's my job. I get a paycheck for it. What do you do? If my boss wanted me to do something else, then I'd do that other thing. It's how this whole employment deal works. It also qualifies me to speak more closely to the issues at hand.

Also:
"Show some fucking respect."
and then
I'm sorry you felt shamed.
Passive-aggression is fun. I do it too.

Look, the whole point of the argument is that it's not an epithet. Abortionist is pejorative when used by the other side. There's no reason to grant them this capacity. There's no reason to pussy-foot, akin to saying Kevorkian "Specializes in end-stage palliative care."

My love for you is like a red red rose.

... he wasn't an abortion doctor. He was an ob gyn. They perform abortions in addition to performing pap smears, pelvic exams and other things ...

Tomato, tomahto. One of these days you'll accept that there is a common parlance which exists outside of a medical clinic -- that people often refer to their cardiologists as "heart doctors." It happens all the time. There's nothing wrong with it. Those doctors work on hearts.

... And when you or anyone else insists on calling OB GYNS "abortion doctors", you re-classify safe, legal, pain-managed, antiseptic abortions out of the realm as something other than health care ...

My terminology says nothing about the process of abortion itself. That's your deal. By avoiding the term "abortion" you concede that it's thing to be de-emphasized. Rather than hang a lantern on the issue, you take the bait, backing away from what the word signifies. It's why the term "abortionist" incenses you so; it shouldn't. There's nothing wrong with performing one.

... You can proceed down this reclaiming path if you want, but telling me to abandon my shame, to stop hanging my head and to somehow reclaim the power of my legal abortions by using a right wing epithet before they do is silly ...

I bet you're why they stopped having Fag Fridays.

"By avoiding the term "abortion" you concede that it's thing to be de-emphasized."

Conceded. Huh.

Is that what I did when I stood before thousands of anti-choice activists and spoke about my abortion (in positive terms)?

Is that what I did when I hosted a speak-out and spoke and urged other women to do the same?

Is that what I did when I wore that darn shirt?

Huh. Is that when I de-emphasized it? All those time ? Shoot! I thought I was challenging the notion that privacy is our best security. I thought I was telling women that the closet ain't no place for any self respecting adult, and to walk, walk, walk right outa there.

"Abortionist" incenses me because it is inaccurate and disrespectful (Dr. Tiller didn't like it, and didn't use it, BTW, and if he didn't want it hung around his neck, why would I do that.... even as his soul makes its last journey?).

It de-dimiensionalizes and segregates the work that OB GYNS do. And it re-classifies abortion as a non-health related procedure, whether you intend it to or not.

What's fag friday?

(Snark aside ... Look, I honor your testimony and your activism. I'm nowhere near your level of disclosure on this issue, and I don't want to be seen as marginalizing it in a context outside of this particular argument.... Resume snark.)

We're not talking about the size and height of your particular soapbox on such and such a date and such and such a time. We're debating the appropriate nomenclature, the actual words we use while we're on our respective soapboxes . That's how the editor of this post opened the ball. "Pro-abortion", "Abortion doctor".

"Abortionist" incenses me because it is inaccurate
You just straight up ignored what I said about common parlance, didn't you? about the way people talk outside of medical clinics? People who aren't invested in a particular issue often sacrifice accuracy for clarity. It's the difference between a computer instruction manual and the watercooler. It's clear what we mean when we say abortion doctor. No one thinks the heart doctor isn't a doctor. It's the value judgement on the word "abortion" that's up for sale here. You can debate the decontextualization of OB GYN work all you want, but it's second-order business for people on a street corner or at a church bake sale. To win the fight among the masses you gotta keep abortion from being a bad thing.

and disrespectful
It's disrespectful if it's a bad thing. Rinse. Repeat.

It de-dimensionalizes and segregates the work that OB GYNS do.
Yes. And it's politically naive to believe you can't win a public debate on those grounds.

Fag Fridays = Queer as Folk. Similar things. Pejoratives, loaded with value judgments. Somewhere along the line, queer acquired less stigma. I wonder how that happened? You think it's because people avoided using the word?

Abortion Doctor: Say Loud, Say It Proud.

"pro choice" is not a flimsy, flowery term. It means belief in a woman's right to CHOOSE what to do with her own body, and that isn't always abortion. Pro-abortion is a term dreamed up by the people who would like to strip me of my rights, and so try to come up with the most inflammatory term possible for the idea that women are free to make their own choices.

Pro abortion is the kind of macabre term dreamed up by the Bill O'Reilly/Operation Rescue faction, and if you can't see the difference, you aren't paying attention.

I doubt the women who sought Tiller's life-saving services really chose to be placed in that position.

Which is why the question is about the choice to even be able to have an abortion.

No one wants an abortion.

Thank you. Simple and well stated.

Please.

No one wants a death penalty either. We don't call them "pro-option" we call them "pro-death penalty".

Call the thing by it's name. It's nothing to be ashamed of.

Your analogy makes no sense. Plenty of people want the death penalty (presumably not the ones who receive it), thus they are pro death penalty. People who want to have a choice in what happens to their body in the event of an unwanted/unviable pregnancy are pro-choice. free to choose: adoption, abortion, or having it.

But "generic" canvasses neighborhoods and works at a medical clinic! His learning curve has clearly been complete for some time now. How can you even THINK of questioning his hard-earned wisdom?

You presume, Bluecanary, you presume.....

Suki: you are sooo jealous of my job. Admit it.

Joel: Pro death penalty activists aren't fighting to actually have kill criminals, they're fighting for the right to have the choice to kill a criminal should they find themselves in that position.

See how it works?

Bluecanary: You are fixated on the choice, the decision making process. This is a clever linguistic framing by the pro-choice movement, one which has borne fruit, but ultimately, as I think Brock alludes to, holds us back.

The bone of contention is not the act of choosing, but the result of that choice. Forget what you personally would or would not do. As a policy matter, as the law of the land, is this an end result that you find acceptable should someone else do it? Then that's what you are.

Do you find it acceptable for the state to kill criminals?
Do you find it acceptable for doctors and patients to terminate a fetus?
Are you pro-death penalty?
Are you pro-abortion?

(yes/no)

This isn't that hard.

Have you ever tried arguing with right wing religious nuts? I have. Communication with these people? Futile.

That's why I live here now. My head got sore from its continually being beat against a wall. Trust me, you're better off arguing semantics with people who actually know what that word means.