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Cops Get Tough With UC Berkeley Protesters
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SFist Tonight
In an amazing twist, murder charges were officially filed against Johannes Mehserle, 27, who (allegedly) shot and killed Oscar Grant on New Year's Day on the Fruitvale BART station platform. The amazing part is that Mehserle is being charged with murder, not manslaughter. (Even those cops in NYC who shot Sean Bell just hours before his wedding were just charged with manslaughter.) If you recall, Matier & Ross said if "Mehserle is charged with a crime in Grant's shooting, it will be a first."
Waiving extradition to California, Mehserle appeared in court today in Minden, Nevada. he is being held without bail, and will be returned to California by week's end. The disgraced officer was found at "family friend's house in an upscale neighborhood on the east shore of Lake Tahoe." Apparently, he was hiding out due to the many death threats he and his family received.
Word is Mehserle is currently under suicide watch.
Oscar Grant's shooting sparked unrest throughout the Bay Area. A protest is planned for later this afternoon at Oakland City Hall.
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as orloff said in his press conference, the DA does not specify the degree of murder. the judge will decide if the charges stand as stated, and the jury will have instructions on how to find for lesser forms of killing. that is, the degree will be decided by the jury from what i can tell.
Even those cops in NYC who shot Sean Bell just hours before his wedding were just charged with manslaughter
If the weapon used was a toilet plunger, the accused gets a lesser charge.
BAM!!!
SF got murder for Marjorie Knoller (which was also a first, of sorts) but Alameda will never get a murder conviction of any degree in this particular case.
Of course there are a few less serious charges available - one of those will stick. Eventually.
how do you figure?
Well, they've got to charge him with something, so the strategy is to try for murder and see how things go. They'll end up getting him for more than battery and less than murder.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesser_included_offense
"battery is necessarily a lesser included offense to murder,"
personally, i'm reserving judgement until the facts are known. however, orloff made a point of saying he couldn't find any mitigating circumstances.
The D.A.'s version of murder vs. CA's:
http://www.kron.com/News/ArticleView/tabid/298/smid/1126/ArticleID/163/reftab/36/Default.aspx?t=D.A.:-Facts-in-BART-Shooting-Case-Justify-Murder-Charges-Against-Former-Officer
1. unlawful killing
2. done by an intentional act
3. nothing that would mitigate that lower than a murder
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&group=00001-01000&file=187-199
187. (a) Murder is the unlawful killing of a human being...with malice aforethought.
1. unlawful killing - check
2. human being - check
3. with malice aforethought - ?????
That's the way I look at it. I wouldn't rely just on the Alameda County DA when considering what murder is in CA.
The DA can always reconsider the charge when the stormy seas aren't as rough, so that's fair enough I spose.
just as an example of malice aforethought: drawing a weapon for intimidation. it does not require premeditation or any of that dragnet stuff.
in fact, if you think about that group of officers patrolling on NYE, it's not hard to imagine them talking shit about various people, possibly using the words "thug" or "gangbanger" and maybe saying something along the line of whether someone should put them in their place, they need parenting, or jobs, or whatever. maybe he said that if someone comes at him...sure, he was joking!
if someone comes forward as a witness to any conversation like that, things could turn very bad indeed for mr. mehserle.
'Allegedly' shot and killed? Allegedly? Are you so far gone that you can't even admit that undeniable detail?
you keep fighting the good fight, Wagnerian.
jesus. unreal.
Well?!?! WTF?
of course he did it. i just thew it in there to appease legal types.
deep breathes.
Ok, an hour later and that seems rational. I apologize.
Well, I've been Mr. Allegedly lately, so let me explain why I think it's warranted.
The evidence certainly indicates that Mehserle shot and killed Grant. But it does not indicate anything else - notably intent and/or premeditation. So to say that he allegedly murdered Grant is exactly right.
You could say, if you wanted to be highly precise, that Mehserle was seen shooting Grant, and allegedly murdered him. But that's too many words for the lead to a blog piece.
In any case, we shall soon see what charges are filed.
I don't think allegedly is necessary, because this is a blog, not journalism. Its very reason for being is the rapid transmission of opinions - points of view rather than a thoughtful weighing and sourcing of information gathered first hand or through reliable sources.
Also, the multi-channeled universe of the internet means that avoiding it is easy.
Wagnerian, there is this thing called the justice system. You know, this process everyone charged with a crime has to go through to discern someone's guilt. And out of respect for all of society and the process we refer to them as 'alleged.' Because, you never know, you or a loved one could be the alleged person at some point, even if they're completely innocent. So how about we keep our head about ourselves, eh?
THANK YOU!
For a bunch of freaks who can't shut up about civil rights folks like Wag sure are eager to take them all away just because the shooter was a cop.
Uh yeah... The legal system, I've heard of it. It would be correct to say allegedly murdered, but he said 'allegedly shot and killed'. That's what I was responding to.
seamless backtracking, my good man. well played.
Yes, and your response was, and continues to be, utterly ridiculous.
"Allegedly" is not a value judgment, Wagnerian, it's the magic word that protects Brock, and every other reporter in America, from libel charges.
Rage on, you crazy diamond.
Here's the only article I can find where the BART cop's family makes comments
http://www.napavalleyregister.com/articles/2009/01/09/news/local/doc4966bd9168315466047323.txt
There are definitely upscale subdivisions in Minden, but it's not "on the East Shore of Lake Tahoe" thank you very much.
Just sayin...
And what exactly was the value of including the socio-economic status of the area in the first place?
its not like he was in a hidey-hole (apologies to W)
Minden is where the court is. Mehserle was apprehended in Zephyr Cove, which is absolutely upscale.
That Meserle has a darkness about him.
The facts will come out and Meserle will not be charged with murder. I bet they are doing it to appease the rioters and family. I can't believe the stupidity of people thinking setting things on fire, protesting and throwing things will help make things better.
Oscar declared a saint because he was shot by police instead of a gang leader is going to far. It's violence that got Oscar shot in the first place.
End the violence and no one will get shot again, now that makes more sense.
Actually, it was stupidity and disrespect that put him in this position. After being detained and put in a prone position he got mouthy with the cops, got riled up and started to stand up, so they put him face down to control the situation. *Then* he was shot.
sorry travin, but the warrant specifically notes that grant was under restraint when he was shot.
You can be sorry all you want because it's a nonsequitor. But what part of "they put him face down to control [him]" are you having difficulty understanding?
Agian where is all the 'fuss" over the other 100+ onder 25 black men shot in OAKLAND last year? Oh yeh thats only black on black killing .. thats OK! How silly of me!
those crimes are unacceptable too, but it's especially bad when a person who is supposed to be fighting crime, supposed to be trained to deal with situations just like the one Oscar Grant was in that morning and supposed to be upholding the law turns around and commits a vicious crime. whether it was accident or not, cops should be held to a higher level of accountability, IMO.
also, even if it were a complete accident (and it probably was), the fact that cops treat black men differently is still true. if a couple of white frat boys were fighting on the train, i don't think the cop would have responded so defensively. cops should be trained not to treat a person differently based on their race.
of course, cops are only human, so there will always be problems here and there.
Cops are held to a much higher level of accountability. Every time an officer discharge their weapon, they are placed on mandatory leave while an investigation takes place. Obviously that didn't prevent this tragedy, but to say they aren't held to a higher level of accountability is just silly.
Again, comparing peer and cohort violence to violence that is done by state-like institutions is futile and does a disservice to both.
Also as was pointed out the last time this was posted, people have been demonstrating to 'stop the violence' for years - so even on its face your point isn't valid.
Lame troll is lame.
Again.
travin..... I was referring to the earlier violence on bart,
but add stupidity and disrespect to the list ;)
yeah, I figured that. But I haven't really seen anything definitive about what really was the cause of them being pulled out of the train or what was the truth of oscar's involvement so I'm unable to comment on that.
There's no way to reasonably draw any conclusion that Oscar was being violent and that's what caused him to be pulled out of the train. Unless I've missed something, for all we know he was pulled out because he was being rowdy or mouthy and defending his friends.
also, even if it were a complete accident (and it probably was), the fact that cops treat black men differently is still true. if a couple of white frat boys were fighting on the train, i don't think the cop would have responded so defensively. cops should be trained not to treat a person differently based on their race.
odds are a few "FRAT" boys ussually do not carry guns like a majority of young black men in OAKLAND, same crap at the AIRPORT , can't remember the last time my granny hijacked a plane. Can't recall FRAT boys shooting each other....
you forgot this: "therefore, it's OK for policemen to treat ALL young black men like dogs."
a majority of young black men in oakland carry guns. right.
"odds are a few "FRAT" boys ussually do not carry guns like a majority of young black men in OAKLAND, "
This statement is demonstrably untrue. But keep going.
I like how you refuse to let facts get in the way of nice diatribe.
"(allegedly)"???
Remember the cops in LA who ( on camera) who draged Rodney King out of his truck and beat him? ALL of them were aquited.
Video dosn't always tell everything
That's why there is a court of law
Wow. Worst example evah.
I am sure if this incident was not captured on video there would be no charges filed and the officer would have gotton off with just a slap on the wrist and a course in anger management. His Dad Todd has anger management problems too, I hope his Dad now realizes what a crappy son he has. Sell the sailboat and give the money to a lawyer-serves him right. Whole lot came from Germany-'nuff said.
discuss the details all you like, distract all you want by shifting attention to the disgraceful rioters (now with 20% more anti-semitism), talk about the legal system, etc.. but anyone who saw that video and has half a brain knows that this was seriously f---ed up and this cop should be put away for a long time. combine that with a bit of historical research and realize that this probably won't happen. it's all just a bit pathetic.
I took BART yesterday and believe it or not, for some reason I did not get yanked off a train, shot or killed. Nobody pulled me off a train and there were no BART, Oakland or SF police officers cuffing or kneeling on the back of my neck.
I wonder why that was the end result of my little trip. Based on some of what you extremists contend, we're all under siege from the powers that be. Oh yeah, I put my ticket in the little machine, sat my polite ass down and rode the train to my destination. I managed to not start any fights, pull out any weapons or get into a fight with the guys with guns.
Fuck Oscar Grant and any apologist who makes excuses for poor civil behavior. That little bitch is dead because he was acting like a tough guy, thug, fighting the power, being an all around idiot and got his just desserts. Hope he has more success pushing up daisies than he ever did as a very unproductive member of society.
You need to quit bogarting the crack pipe dude, the rest of us want a hit too.
Man, the comments section on here is broke. :(
Robin -- You channeling AYM?
You know, I used to read it that way before realizing that there's a capital 'I' in there. Actually his nick is "Rob In SF"
Because of the statistics in the news.... Yes if I were alone at a Gas Station at night, the person I would fear the most would be Black.(with a hoodie) especially in a group of three. Read the News and get smart!
To survive in this world you have to be cautious of what could be a bad situation.
Don't deny it!
"Whole lot came from Germany-'nuff said."
Puh-leeeeeze.
Not every young black man is a gun-toting gangbanger, and not everyone from Germany (or with a German last name, or with German parents) is a racist, anti-semitic monster. If that's your basis for passing judgment on this person, let's just get rid of the whole court system.