SFist: Oscar Grant Killing and Gays = Wha?

elihu_hernandez13

Thu, 15 Jan 2009 09:05:44 -0800

To Brock, and all others: First Ammendment Rights Brock wrote an OPINION article. This is his reactions to the killing of Oscar. He is not reporting for CNN, or FOX,so people.................get over it

Brock Keeling

Wed, 14 Jan 2009 12:08:17 -0800

If only I had a way of announcing my ideas to a large group . . .

naturalbeat

Wed, 14 Jan 2009 12:03:43 -0800

Again I say: Why don't you stop complaining and get off your ass and do something?! You keep saying that their ideas don't work? Then why not announce some of your own? Why not spend your hours rallying people together and trying to make a difference? You're all talk and no game. While all of us continue to work on gaining rights, you just sit back and complain - dividing the community and pushing us 10 steps back. Apparently you're too comfortable playing the victim and don't want to see a world where you can't use that as your excuse anymore. It takes a scared person to complain about the efforts of a brave few. If you had any balls, you'd step up and do something instead of spend your time criticizing the people who do.

Brock Keeling

Wed, 14 Jan 2009 11:15:50 -0800

Don't take this the wrong way, but you should be ashamed of yourself. "[G]ives activists a voice and the power to mobilize," "platform for organizing," and other rhetoric crap? Disgusting. And, worse, ineffective. Neither issue is a party for you and your feel-good pals to have your feelings validated. With all due respect, you have no business being in the world of activism if you find it impossible to focus your priorities and your message. Do us all a favor and instead spend your energy working on your costume for the Playa.

naturalbeat

Wed, 14 Jan 2009 11:07:02 -0800

This post is just stupid. Where to begin... First, the picture of the protest sign links Gaza to Grant, yet the post is about Join the Impact linking itself to Grant. Nowhere on JointheImpact.com do they evey speak about the Gaza protest, so why try linking the two? Second, since when did it become a problem or a "convaluted message" for someone to post a blog about a hate crime? The gay community deals with hate daily and many activists, including Join the Impact are working hard to strengthen hate crime laws. Speaking out against hate crimes is a must to meet this goal. I, for one, commend them for not discriminating when it comes to what they speak out against. It's pretty hypocritical to spend one week speaking out against the hatecrime in Richmond (the lesbian who was gang raped) and then not speak out against another hate crime just because the person wasn't gay. Finally, have you ever read the Join the Impact mission statement? It focuses on equality for all. Not just the gay community. It talks about building bridges and respecting one another. hello, that's what this is all about! Overturning Prop 8 is not their only goal. If you were any good at your job, you'd do some research before posting a great deal of BS that you are just pulling out of your ass. You are just angry because they brought more attention to the issues than "the grownups" doing "serious work to overturn Prop 8." So many people keep saying that Stonewall 2.0 is fizzling, or relying on Join the Impact to keep it going. The group is a "platform for organizing" so it says on their site. It works with many grassroots organizations. It gives activists a voice and the power to mobilize, what have you ever done? Why don't you stop complaining and get off your ass and do something?! At least Join the Impact continues to do something for the cause. At least they continue to give the gay community a voice. If you don't like what they're doing, then why not step up and do something yourself? Oh wait, you can't. Some random no names come out of nowhere and recharged a movement, they got millions of people involved and more traffic to their websites in a day than you could get in a month... you're really complaining because they did more in a week then you could do in a year. Now you're saying that they can't report on a hate crime or give their readers and members a way to get involved in something related to civil rights? Get over yourself. Step up and do something or get out of the way of the thousands of people who are doing something.

Nakhone

Wed, 14 Jan 2009 01:46:49 -0800

First and foremost, you are foul! Well, let's see what is our (the gay community) relationship to Oscar Grant. Maybe we're connected because we're human and we are attempting to build bridges and stand in solidarity against injustice that has been committed on our fellow man? Have you thought of that? Or do you lack imagination that much that you couldn't think of something else to write about? I can see you're doing a lot of good for humanity! Your article is disgustingly irresponsible.

LisaLives

Tue, 13 Jan 2009 20:41:19 -0800

Team Brock.

manys

Tue, 13 Jan 2009 19:11:51 -0800

Well, it's nice to see someone admit that they're being purely reactionary.

Art of War

Tue, 13 Jan 2009 17:40:03 -0800

“Seems like you bring a lot of drama for such a simple emotion.” Consider it an equal and opposite reaction to all the other self righteous drama that’s been spewed by Evan Shamar and the other indymedia goons.

Wagnerian

Tue, 13 Jan 2009 17:09:12 -0800

The solution would be to put the cop in jail and be transparent about what is happening with the investigation. The silence on the issue has caused great dischord.

jacksevanroo

Tue, 13 Jan 2009 16:52:27 -0800

I want to know the solution posed by the protestors? No police? Police with no guns? I don't see that helping things. Maybe it's a murder charge for the officer? But that doesn't jibe with rhetoric that we need to free Oakland from being a police state. So you have what appears to be an accident -- a tragic and stupid accident -- turn into a full-blown repudiation of all police, and, of course, "the system". Focus, protestors. You need goals that can actually be achieved. Police departments won't be shut down because of Oscar Grant, nor will Israel pull out of Gaza because of Oscar Grant. What probably will happen is better protocols for when officers remove their weapon from its holster, and a manslaughter charge for the officer -- that's about the best you should hope for.

manys

Tue, 13 Jan 2009 16:24:01 -0800

Subtlety is lost on those unable to see it.

manys

Tue, 13 Jan 2009 16:22:52 -0800

Why don't you just say he deserved it and be done with it? Seems like you bring a lot of drama for such a simple emotion.

periqueblend

Tue, 13 Jan 2009 15:59:53 -0800

"If the BART cop was black do you think people would still be throwing the word “execution” around, or would people have the common sense to see it for what it was or at least give the cops the benefit of the doubt?" Yes. (cf Sean Bell shooting last year in NY) And it wasn't analysis, it was sarcasm.

Art of War

Tue, 13 Jan 2009 15:49:35 -0800

Notice that as a new father he wasn't at home with his wife or his kid. He was out with his homies picking fights on BART. That's what he was doing years ago when he got his friend James Fumar killed, that's how he was ringing in the new year.

oskarv

Tue, 13 Jan 2009 15:38:53 -0800

i'm not saying we should "tie them in" together. i'm just saying it makes perfect sense for gay people to attend the protest of another oppressed group. not a joint protest, rather, helping out the other group by standing with them on their issues. i agree that overweight people are discriminated against in all areas of society: employment, the media, you name it. i would be right there with them if they had a demonstration.

Brock Keeling

Tue, 13 Jan 2009 15:37:56 -0800

"...and the world will be a better place without him." The same could be said for most of us. Then again, none of us knew Grant. I imagine he had a lot to give, being a young guy, a new father, etc.

Ciaran

Tue, 13 Jan 2009 15:36:33 -0800

No. Because those fatties had it coming.

Art of War

Tue, 13 Jan 2009 15:34:51 -0800

“But summary public executions are acceptable in very few societies.” Riiight. Because I know that when most cops decide to execute someone they do it in front a whole bus full of witnesses with cell phone cameras. Brilliant analysis of the situation. If the BART cop was black do you think people would still be throwing the word “execution” around, or would people have the common sense to see it for what it was or at least give the cops the benefit of the doubt? At first I didn’t want to defend the police too much because there is a trigger happy culture in law enforcement to taser non-violent people... but after seeing how most of the internet has just turned into an indymedia cluster fuck this month I’ve changed my mind. Bottom line – the most productive thing Oscar Grant even accomplished was to start a fight and then get accidenty killed by the cops. His family will get the $25 million and the world will be a better place without him.

WagonMonster

Tue, 13 Jan 2009 15:30:41 -0800

I wonder what Oscar Grant thought of gay people

periqueblend

Tue, 13 Jan 2009 15:08:54 -0800

If I had the misfortune to be on a BART train @ 2:00am on NYE, I would expect a certain amount of assholery. But summary public executions are acceptable in very few societies. Even if Oscar Grant had been dealing AND assualting someone AND assaulting the officer who arrested him, there would still be the matter of the Rule of Law. I'm not sure where you get the idea that white guilt is at play, but I suppose it is similar to the nebulous claim that hipsters are behind these unfocused protests.

aj

Tue, 13 Jan 2009 15:03:12 -0800

Of course, it's easier just to point out how everyone is hella dumb. If the gothamist family of websites is about anything, it's about this.

manys

Tue, 13 Jan 2009 15:01:56 -0800

Funny, I was just thinking that an authoritarian mentality justifying the cops actions had taken over.

RobInSF

Tue, 13 Jan 2009 14:56:15 -0800

I think it is safe to say that if this little punk Oscar Grant was on your BART train acting like a thug, starting fights and generally scaring the hell out of other patrons, you might feel a certain sense of justice that his sorry ass took a bullet. Accidentally or otherwise. Of all the things I constantly hear from Bay Area types is that ever present concept of karma. Live by the sword, die by the sword. I'm beginning to think that the 'Free Mumia' white guilt mentality has taken over around here.

manys

Tue, 13 Jan 2009 14:20:20 -0800

I hope everyone will join me in coming together to finally stamp out discrimination once and for all by visiting my new social network website: mumigayscartinians.com

LGD

Tue, 13 Jan 2009 14:18:36 -0800

Apparent intent of Brock's posting: Complain about the annoying combination of barely related protest movements. Actual effect: Downplay the importance of protesting against Oscar Grant's death. Good messages should be unified and focused, and I get as irritated as anyone when I see message dilution -- especially for two issues that I care about and that would be better represented on their own. But if you really care about what's going on in your community, you'd use your blog to redirect the conversation to where it should be. That protest energy is not a bad thing, it's just being poorly packaged. Of course, it's easier just to point out how everyone is hella dumb.

manys

Tue, 13 Jan 2009 14:10:23 -0800

Personally, I use "murder" in the sense of what I would like to see the officer charged with. This is certainly imprecise and possibly unfair (pace OJ Simpson), but I recognize that as my own bias and frankly I give myself permission to be biased about certain things. Let him defend himself like everybody else in court. I do think the act was egregious even if an accident, but the DA should not include any state of mind or chaos or any other justification. Keep in mind that over the past several years anti-crime activists and lawmakers have successfully reduced the level of malice required to charge someone with murder. Let's see if the axe swings both ways.

The Angry Young Man

Tue, 13 Jan 2009 14:07:36 -0800

That sign in the photo Brock posted there is a perfect example of why the social justice progressive folks justifiably seek is so elusive. Are the Gays, Oscar Grant, and Palestinians all victims of discrimination? Sure, but so what? In order to effect positive change, you need to convince the vast majority of politically disaffected folks out there that something is wrong and needs to be corrected. They're happy with their Big Macs and Nikes and when they see a message like that shown in the sign, it makes absolutely no sense to them. Furthermore, it gives right wingers perfect material to illustrate how out of whack leftists are. I don't know how many protests I've been to through the years where, suddenly, even though we're demonstrating against something like Prop 8, some hippie has to get on stage and drag Mumia or Palestinians out of their ass. Sure, it's relevant in some distant tangential sense, but come on. Focus, people! You can't solve all the world's problems at one derivative 1968 historical reenactment in Dolores Park, you know.

MisterPlow

Tue, 13 Jan 2009 14:06:41 -0800

oskarv, you know who else gets discriminated against? The overweight. Can we tie that in somehow too?

Brock Keeling

Tue, 13 Jan 2009 14:02:39 -0800

i was referring to my sick WASPy brethren who shouted "I am Oscar Grant" at last night's protest. who haven't a club as to what Grant's life was like.

aj

Tue, 13 Jan 2009 13:58:08 -0800

Hey, that's a great idea, not coming to a conclusion before all the facts are known. So let's not use the term "murdered" yet, shall we? The cop killed him, but until the investigation and possible criminal trial are done, it's still a suspicious killing only.

oskarv

Tue, 13 Jan 2009 13:55:45 -0800

but nobody is proposing joint protests. all the website recommended was for gay people who feel strongly about the Oscar Grant issue to attend the upcoming protest. what is so awful about that? i noticed Brock sarcastically puts "our patron Saint...." i can only guess he's referring to the fact that oscar grant had a criminal record, that if he wasn't fighting on New Years day in the first place he wouldn't have had problems with the police, wouldn't have been killed, etc.... when people say things like this i can't help but draw obvious parallels to "our patron Saint" Matthew Sheppard. Remember him? When that happened, many said that HE had it coming because he was apparently promiscuous, a drug user, and that Sheppard would have never been killed if he hadn't made a pass to those two homophobes in the bar. how is this any different to the people who say Oscar Grant had it coming? it isn't. i think it only makes sense that a community that has experienced hate crimes of its own would want to support a demonstration of another group of people who have been struggling with the same issues.

manys

Tue, 13 Jan 2009 13:55:30 -0800

I'm as fervent a couch-commentator as you seem to be, yet I know know what can be done. Any ideas? It doesn't make any sense just to point out deficiencies. So what do you suggest?

aj

Tue, 13 Jan 2009 13:52:14 -0800

Allegedly murdered. It may have been an accident. There's nothing wrong with peaceful protest of this incident. There should be peaceful protest of this incident. Combining it with Gaza, Prop 8, and other miscellaneous causes du jour dilutes its message. Seriously, I really do not get why the Left insists on combining unrelated causes in the name of "social justice." The Right sure doesn't!

manys

Tue, 13 Jan 2009 13:51:41 -0800

Yes, it does make you an asshole, but not for the reason you think. You're not an asshole for thinking it was an accident, that the protestors are lame, or whatever. You're an asshole for coming to a conclusion before all the facts are known. A good reason to protest is that this (former) officer is being given kid-glove treatment by the DA. That is, the "what" of the shooting. None of us knows the "why" yet. I have to wonder who Mehserle has retained for a lawyer.

manys

Tue, 13 Jan 2009 13:48:28 -0800

Equality Camp? Wasn't that run by the "leaders" of the No8 campaign?

aj

Tue, 13 Jan 2009 13:46:12 -0800

Not everyone believes in the same view of "social justice," or even thinks such a thing exists. Assuming that all of your supporters will see a connection is really foolish.

craeg

Tue, 13 Jan 2009 13:44:10 -0800

Maybe I am an a**hole, but I look at the tragedy of Oscar Grant as an accident. I have viewed the same footage that everyone else here has used to convict the BART cop - and to me it looks like he made an extremely poor choice in using his handgun not his taser. I do NOT think this was an intentional murder in front of all of his colleagues and the how many people videotaping the scene. Most of the protestors here are co-opting this tragedy to blow off some hipster whitey guilt steam. Look at the cover of the examiner - a bunch of white kids claiming "we are Oscar Grant!" Yeah right - you are Oscar Grant from hillsborough or San Rafael and your parents pay the rent on your mission district flat.

RobInSF

Tue, 13 Jan 2009 13:40:11 -0800

Oscar Grant is (was) a convicted criminal with long arrest record who was doing bad things, got into a bad situation of his own causing and accidentally got shot by an inexperienced transit cop. Gay marriage/Prop 8 is about law biding citizens and their supporters attempting to prevent their civil rights from getting trampled by religious zealots. Maybe it's just me, but I fail to see a connection between the two.

billywags

Tue, 13 Jan 2009 13:24:22 -0800

I would guess that a majority of black people (all people, really) are deeply upset by Grant's killing, but a majority of there were not deeply upset by the passage of prop 8. Maybe they don't actually want the two issues to pool resources quite as much as you think.

Ciaran

Tue, 13 Jan 2009 13:23:53 -0800

The BART/Gays/Gaza protest dilutes everyone's message. Lets see if we can get bikes into the next one as well!

The Angry Young Man

Tue, 13 Jan 2009 13:21:44 -0800

Mumia must be feeling like a used up prom date right about now...

sweet_charles

Tue, 13 Jan 2009 13:21:28 -0800

"Well, one assumes that Oscar Grant had gay family and friends like everyone else". You sure about that? Did you know him? No need to co-opt this and confuse everyone in the process. And that statement alone shows a profound ignorance of everyone else in the bay area. Just like back in the day when a NY Times reporter was quoted as saying, "I can't beleive Nixon won, I don't know anyone who voted for him" Get out of your bubble Wagnerian

Brock Keeling

Tue, 13 Jan 2009 13:21:28 -0800

Would you be OK with anti-abortion activists showing up to Oscar Grant protests? After all, within their zany rhetoric and outcries, it's all about about stopping senseless killings as well. What I'm getting at is, this is quickly devolving into an aesthetic movement; not a political or social one. The Bay Area really needs to be careful about not doing this.

oskarv

Tue, 13 Jan 2009 13:11:38 -0800

any callousness on sfist is eclipsed by commentators on SFGATE and conservative pundits.

corourke

Tue, 13 Jan 2009 13:09:45 -0800

It's pretty appalling to me how glib the SFist commentary on the whole BART killing has been. How this is not seen as an extremely pressing issue is beyond me. An innocent, unarmed man was murdered by an officer of the law, and yet SFist seems to oppose protest, peaceful or otherwise. Governments tend not to do anything about civil rights issues unless there's significant pressure from the public. And, for every hundred people who protest peacefully, there are bound to be a couple idiots/assholes that read the situation as a license to do whatever the hell they feel like and get out of hand. I don't know how ironic you were trying to be with that post, but it's pretty dumb to use the actions of a handful of college anarchists to characterize a whole movement.

oskarv

Tue, 13 Jan 2009 13:09:39 -0800

the underlying reason for refusing to allow gays to get married and for rampant police brutalities against blacks is the same: discrimination.

Wagnerian

Tue, 13 Jan 2009 12:58:57 -0800

Define "whacking off on". I was deeply upset the passage of Prop 8. I am also upset by the execution style killing of Oscar Grant. Are we not supposed to use Stonewall 2.0 tools for any other issue but Prop 8? - The tools that I myself am working on to build? We need to build an entirely separate infrastructure to address other issues? I don't think so. I think that's bullshit. It makes sense to make coalitions and share resources.

manys

Tue, 13 Jan 2009 12:53:24 -0800

Hear hear!

Wagnerian

Tue, 13 Jan 2009 12:49:24 -0800

THANK YOU!

Brock Keeling

Tue, 13 Jan 2009 12:48:58 -0800

i agree that both cases are (allegedly) about discrimination. but let's be clear: one is about the horrific killing of an unarmed civilian; the other is about gays getting married.

oskarv

Tue, 13 Jan 2009 12:45:43 -0800

i don't see what's so surprising or left-wing-hippy about this. homophobia and police brutality are both civil rights issues. we're strongest when we have allies.

Brock Keeling

Tue, 13 Jan 2009 12:44:23 -0800

"this is the worst posting on the Oscar Grant tragedy that has been on SFist. " Oh, believe me, there was a much, much, much more awful post on it. Anyway, neither Prop 8 nor Oscar Grant's death is a party for you and your pals to whack off on. Come on. Think. Unifying them in some sort of bondage of oppression detracts from the original meaning. I cannot imagine any well-meaning individuals would want to dilute either case by bringing them together.

Wagnerian

Tue, 13 Jan 2009 12:39:17 -0800

So, brock, acording to you gay liberation is supposed to exist in some bubble where it is not impacted by other types of struggles for social justice? "Just what the nature of Oscar's relationship with the LGBTQ community was is beyond us. If you know, let us in on it." Well, one assumes that Oscar Grant had gay family and friends like everyone else, and that non-white gay people ride BART and are targets of police brutality and harassment as well? What is your problem here? Honestly, this is the worst posting on the Oscar Grant tragedy that has been on SFist. What on earth is your issue? When I went to Equality Camp last weekend, the concensus of the group seemed to be that the gay movement had isolated itself and needed to make and form coalitions with other groups. Gay struggle is not merely about well off white men and their well-off concerns. Fucking DEAL WITH IT, dude.

travin

Tue, 13 Jan 2009 12:13:57 -0800

Now if only their posters had pictures of cute puppies and kittens they'd be, like, TOTally set.

porkbun

Tue, 13 Jan 2009 11:57:53 -0800

let's get the media's attention...and then not agree on what cause to address!