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The Haight Street Underworld
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SFist Tonight
Geoff Kors, Executive Director of Equality California, has decided not to an invitation to attend Obama's inauguration. Why? Because of the Obama administration's decision to have evangelical pastor Rick Warren deliver the invocation. Warren, you see, worked to get prop 8 passed, which allowed discrimination into the California state constitution. An odd choice, indeed.
Kors defends his decision not to attend, saying, "I have decided to decline the invitation to attend the inauguration as I cannot be part of a celebration that highlights and gives voice to someone who advocated repealing rights from me and millions of other Californians."
What a mistake. We keep talking about how gays need to build coalitions and introduce ourselves to people and make ourselves known; after all, Harvey Milk's whole deal was coming out and being visible. But now this guy is turning down an opportunity to introduce himself to the VERY PEOPLE WHOSE HEARTS WE NEED TO TURN? Jesus.
Geoff's reservations are understandable; if we were in his place, we would think, "How could we, in good conscience, be a part of something that involves a person of whom we disapprove so strongly?" But then we would re-think with a bit more clarity, "How could we NOT?" This is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to engage, and we are disappointed that EQCA is passing it up.
Rick Warren has been spoiling for a fight ever since he started attacking our families. But he's bluffing -- this is a fight that everyone knows we (i.e., those of us for equal rights) will win. So what's EQCA afraid of? Politics is a big bad messy place, and if they're too scared to skin their knuckles once in a while, they oughta pack it in now. If we may quote from an episode of Star Trek? Ahem:
If you can't take a little bloody nose -- maybe you had better go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous -- with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross -- but it is not for the timid.
If Geoff Kors is so opposed to Obama's selection and to what Rick Warren represents, then he should have the nerve to walk up to them both and tell them, not hide in California.
Geoff, we hope you reconsider. Please.
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Well put Brock, well put.
I don't know why we aren't demanding his resignation, he's an embarrassment.
Actually, I don't understand why he was going in the first place, but that's not the point.
I beg to differ on your interpretation of Kors boycott to be a missed opportunity ala Milk's coalition building.
Milk didn't bother trying to make friends with Anita Bryant and her ilk. The coalitions he built were between people of communities that had something in common with each other that needed to unite against a common enemy.
There is nothing to be gained by glad handing someone like Rick Warren. He is not interested in working with us. His goal is to demonize and marginalize us and profit off his easy success with both of those agenda items - and Obama is enabling Warren to do both.
The film about Milk's life showed me everything that has gone wrong in the past 30 years as the focus became about assimilating into a system in order to achieve power/position instead of continuing to build on the momentum that began in the street with Milk's campaigns.
As soon as it became more important to work within the system, we ended up with an array of "important" gays both politically and in the media that have done nothing but accumulate wealth and acclaim while we are attacked with DOMA, DADT, 30 state amendments and an ENDA that has been disemboweled and robbed of purpose.
How is it that Milk managed success 30 years ago on Prop 6 - trailing by 20 percentage points - without $40 million dollars and since then CA lost on Prop 22 and now Prop 8?
It's not because we didn't befriend more religious zealots. It might be because we deluded ourselves into thinking that the Democratic Party is going to save us.
That party - and their savior Obama - are the distraction and the problem.
Hear, Hear Geoff!
No this isn't about being tolerant. Its about the same crap that Obama has done for more than a year. Just like what Trent Lott did at Strom Thurman's funeral, by winking to the segregationists. It is giving a stage and Obama's name to discrimination. And yes it would be better if were Sen Clinton, at least the left wouldn't have any problem criticizing her and next time she would think twice before she let one of these creeps speak in her name. But Obama has had a year of taking Gay money and putting haters on the stage. But it makes sense, the few politicians that actually do anything for gay rights are constantly skewered here, you wonder why prop 8 passed, it's because there is no reason for many politicos to put their ass on the line.
And BTW anyone who says Obama didn't pick warren but a committee did. They only did so under the instructions of the PE.
peej66, so well said. Thank you.
Rick Warren is a doofus to be sure. And I ain't gonna be the non-gay White male (which we all know are intrinsically evil) to tell what y'all to do.
But I'll say this: we were WINNING the No on 8 campaign and it was the Establishment Left that buddy-buddied with Republicans at every singal FRAKKING turn, the same Establishment that had great big fundraising parties that took LOTS of money from gay and non gay alike to support their big staff, that same Elite that managed to fumble the No on 8 campaign when at one point, may I remind folks the GOOD GUYS WERE WINNING, and some how managed to pull defeat from the jaws of victory.
So yeah, throw a temper tantrum about the first African American elected to office. yeah, get all mad and shit now. But where was all this organizational fury just a few months ago when WE COULD HAVE DEFEATED THESE JERKS AND MADE IT MATTER?
Sorry for the all caps but shit. A passionate march is one thing. Kicking the ultra-right in the nuts hard and often, is another. We had a chance to do so, but instead, wasted time on candyland bullshit. And now we're all losing. Cause next time they are coming after the next group. I won't be surpised if in 10 years they're issuing a fatwa on God Knows What.
Hell if they can crap on the gays, let's go after someone else! It's the Non-American Way. UNLESS THE PEOPLE CALL BULLSHIT ON IT.
It's a tough subject. I'm definitely disappointed in the Warren selection, but I also think that from Obama's perspective he would lose too much face by backing down on Warren at this point (unless Warren "offered" to withdraw his name, but that might create an even bigger firestorm at this point). Brock, you make a good point about the need for coalition building. If prop 8 taught us anything, it's that there is no way those of us who support equal rights can make any serious electoral gains without doing more than we have been to reach out to communities we've avoided in the past, and yes, that includes communities hostile to our cause. We need to get the message out: gay rights are human rights. The question is, how do we most effectively convey it?
*wah* I didn't get my way so I'm taking my ball and not going to Suzie's party.
They should change his title to "Executive Director of Really Bad Long Term Political Decisions for my Supposed Constituency"
(I was channeling Rachel Maddow there kids)
I wonder if all of the peeps in this supposed "community" who regularly shit all over one another for being too old, too young, too butch, not butch enough, too hairy, too freaky, too open, too closeted, too flamboyant, not queer enough and so on...had anything to do with this weak kneed, spineless decision.
Community??? I call bullshit.
Next time you see Mr. Extreme Whininiess, be sure to thank him for making the brilliant decision not to rub elbows with those who might help in the fight for equality.
p.s.
I already copyrighted that whole "jesus christ in the end-up" bit and will be selling t-shirts to Chinese tourists at the corner of Market @ Castro this weekend. $15 each, two for $25.
Sorry Geoff, but this is petty politics at it's worst. Smell the writing.
You might as well be Aunt Matilda causing drama over an invitation to Christmas dinner. Who might she have to set next to? Will her favorite dish be served? Will she deign to come if so and so is invited?
The best way to deal with this type of dysfunction is to ignore it until the person realizes that dinner will be served with or without them. No matter how unfortunate, it's their choice to lose out. And if these are the choices that perplex them then perhaps they aren't yet ready to join the adults table. But the table is always there with a place for them to sit. They just have to be a big person, be nice and they'll be welcome.
Go Brock!
It's easy to condemn someone you don't know. The anti-gay marriage people need to meet those of us who believe in marriage for everyone. Eventually, they will realize that there's nothing scary about two men marrying each other. It won't happen right away, but it will in time.
And if you don't believe in reaching out, what other choice do we have?
I'm with Brock. Kors (any relation to Michael? he appears to be well dressed) would do well to go, and then take the fight right to that bigot Warren, even at the risk of being thrown out.
But I have a better idea. Equality California LOST, badly. Why not give the ticket to one of the new leaders who might actually WIN? Like the Join the Impact girl, or Matt who runs Stop8.org?
I've said this before but it bears repeating.
Punch the leaders of hate in the face. (Figuratively of course.) Keep doing this until you don't have to anymore.
Meanwhile reach out to the rank and file. The leaders can't do anything without them. Show them that equality actually HELPS them keep their right wing "lifestyle" free of government interference. As they peel away, the leaders realize they can't win anymore.
I don't understand how Kors would have the opportunity to "introduce himself to the very people whose hearts we need to turn" even if he attended. he wasn't going to be a speaker at the inauguration, was he? he would have been one of tens of thousands of people in the audience. his attendance would be of no consequence. his loud and publicized denial of the invitation DOES make an impact. i think he made the right move.
Another bad decision from Geoff Kors, just proving that his tenure as some kind of "leader" on gay marriage is OVER.
For months he's positioned himself as the "face" of the marriage equality movement. Now, he's sanctimoniously going miss Obama's inauguration -- to prove a point about Rick Warren. So Rick Warren wins. He scares away the gay guy.
Instead of going to Washington -- where everyone who will be part of the decision-making process of the next 8 years will be -- Kors is staying in Calfornia? Guess what -- while you're missing the most important political event of this era, conversations will be starting that will influence the fate of gay marriage, in California and all over the country.
Geoff, give me your ticket. I'll happily go to Washington on January 20th and continue the fight for marriage equality, where it matters.
getting upset over kors' decision or even at warren is like getting pissed off at the boy your boyfriend is sleeping with. the fact of the matter is that obama could have chosen from hundreds of thousands of religious leaders. a halfway prudent person would have chosen someone who wasn't closely involved in any incendiary issues like gay marriage. obama was clearly trying to make a "reach across the aisle" statement, and that shit is getting old.
incidentally, the san francisco boys chorus, the san francisco girls chorus, and dianne feinstein are also going to be part of the ceremony. maybe obama intended these SF figures to even out the homophobia? sounds like a clueless person's idea of "coming together."
Obama was not elected because he was going to instantly pass every far-left leaner's agenda. But I think he does understand the importance of things like gay marriage, clean energy, etc, and he's going to work towards them (maybe not in the direction we thought he would, i.e. Warren, but I appreciate the attempt at involving all sides).
Prop 8 and others like it will never be repealed when all its fearful, family-value supporters see are gay-rights parades and protests full of half-naked men and women. I'm not saying this is wrong, but it's not effective in Kansas. Put on a suit, show up to Washington, and introduce yourself, Kors.
I'm confused, I thought that Feinstein was the one being included as part of his "reaching across the aisle" nonsense. Sort of like the plan to not really bring troops home from Iraq so much as just shift them over to Afghanistan. Or the nonsense about new special courts to handle Guantanamo.
Obama hasn't even been inaugurated and he's already compromising himself and, well, living down to being exactly what I thought we'd get. Being a good public speaker and shouting "Change" all the time doesn't mean anything if the actual policies and decisions aren't going to support it.
Speaking of which, when in the hell can we finally get rid of Feinstein and Pelosi both? We need actual liberals, not these warmed-over Republicans with better marketing.
Hear, hear, Brock! Kors's decision to boycott the inauguration is just more of the same kind of crap that plagued the No on 8 campaign throughout the entire election. This guy hasn't learned a thing. Let's face it, the real reason Kors won't be attending this hootenanny is because to do so, he'd have to leave the Castro, both mentally and figuratively. Can't do that!
Brock, I agree with you that Geoff should reconsider going. I think that someone above made a good point that his decision not to go has made a small media blip (which is potentially a good thing), but he'll do us more good by being there and meeting with as many folks as possible on the larger LGBT agenda.
However, for anyone calling for Geoff's resignation, I hope you understand his amazing track record. California didn't become the nation's most protective state for the LGBT community by accident. Under Geoff's leadership, EQCA has grown into a significant player in CA politics. If, in that context, you still want him to quit, then we simply have an honest disagreement. However, if you're basing your call simply on your understanding of how Prop 8 went down, you're missing the bigger picture.
I love seeing Q quotes appear on the internet. Well done.
I concur with kainoa. Nicely written and well-expressed, BK.
Let's not forget it was Geoff that helped bungle the No on Prop 8 campaign.
Of course he'd do something dumb like back out instead of attempting to build a bridge. The entire No on 8 Campaign was built around dumb standoffish moves such as this and it's part of the reason why it failed.
Not suprising, Geoff.
I'm not going to pretend I know much about what's going on in the mind of Geoff Kors, but I do know that we can get a lot farther with our demand for equality if we're sitting at the table instead of fretting about who else is at that table while sitting in our bedroom.
Let's say goodbye to petulance (and fear mongering, among other things) with the exit of George W. "worst president ever" Bush, and move on to better things in 2009 .... please don't "boycott" the inaugration.
While I agree with some points Brock made, I don't think that Kors is hiding or showing petulance. Obama needs the support of us just as much as we need him. I think this protest sends a message that we won't be apart of a presidency that mocks our community.
I think that the more voices that are there in person on inauguration day who loudly, loudly BOOOOOOOOO when Rick Warren steps to the podium, the better.
If a million people really do show up, all we really need is say 50,000.
Please remember to coordinate on a nice color for your ensemble, pink is always appropriate, place yourselves within view of the televison cameras, FOX comes to mind, and have a nice day!
@ChasteMakesWaste:
That makes no sense. Let's boycott Obama! That'll do us a LOT to get our point across - be ignored.
"Obama needs the support of us just as much as we need him."
Unfortunately, not true. He doesn't need us. He's already got us (what are we doing to do, vote Republican?). He needs Warren and that crowd.
But we do need him. And we need to be at the table.
Anyone that believes that a bridge can be built - or should be built - to reach and affect Rick Warren and his gaggle of bible maniacs is seriously deluded.
It is also ridiculous to think that Geoff Kors is the one to make that connection or that he would have any access whatsoever to Warren, Obama or anyone involved in the administration.
None of us would have even known Kors was there if he didn't announce his boycott.
Maybe Hitler would have been nicer if more Jews made an effort to shake his hand. Yeah, that is an overused (and unfair) comparison, but the concept is similar enough.
What would it take for people to understand that the religious right is not our problem as much as our own friends/allies are? How many avowed liberals and Democrats voted for Prop 8 according to the same CNN exit poll that condemned African Americans?
I know the answer: nearly 25% of people that say they are liberal and nearly 40% of self identified Democrats supported 8.
Reaching out to Warren would be the biggest waste of time and energy and would only result in more of the same conciliation, compromise, and abdication of our rights as citizens. In the meantime, because of our proposed engagement with him and his people his bigotry gains more legitimacy.
No thanks. Kors should stay home. He should never have planned on going. He should conduct a rally right here in SF with the LGBT supporters that gave their money support and energy to Obama at their own expense and make enough noise that it drowns out Warren and his idiocy.
THAT would be leadership.
Oh oh, I spy Godwin's Law. Party's over.
We should have an over/under on Godwin's Law in threads like this. 29 is fewer than usual, I think. Normally I'd bet about 45.
Godwin. Freeze the thread?
i like aj's thinking. anything over 45.
I will comment on nothing above, because everyone has made pretty coherent arguments both for and against Kors going. I think the arguments against Kors going is the way I'm leaning as well.
I do take issue with this statement though:
"But I think he [Obama] does understand the importance of things like gay marriage."
Is that why Obama has repeatedly said he is AGAINST gay marriage? Because he understands its importance? The willful blindness of the electorate, particularly in seemingly more evolved place like San Francisco, is truly frightening.
The man lists a blatantly homophobic bigot as one of his three spiritual advisors, he campaigns with homophobic bigots, and he chooses a homophobic bigot as his invocation speaker. To think in any way that Obama is supportive of the gay community is just breathtakingly naiive.
So he said in his acceptance speech that gays should be included. So what? What does that even mean? My dog is included in my family, but that doesn't mean he eats at the dinner table with me, or has full rights in running the household. He gave out some vague mention as a sop to people who unfortunately spent far more time getting him elected, than they spent securing their own civil rights.
oh, my...i stepped on a trigger that provided you an opportunity to ignore the larger argument and instead focus on a way to avoid defending the multitude of other remarks.
Yeah, I'm not proud of the analogy, but I'm at work and don't have time to find less obvious connections to make right now.
Please forgive my taking the easy route.
Now, don't be a pussy. Respond to the rest.
for starters? throwing up some sourceless stats doesn't help your case.
and as a proud, self-declared pussy who hides behind a screen all day, pouting in california doesn't help. i would be in DC, period. kors should go. at best, it's ignorance on kors part; at worst, it's arrogant gay male behavior.
I'm conflicted.
On one hand, I really don't give a damn who Obama chooses to shout at an imaginary sky spirit on January 20 (or whenever this party is being held). On the other hand, I'd like to throttle all the assimilationists who think reaching out to people who have power and financial incentives to maintain and promote hate will somehow make a difference.
And as nonpussy who, um, sits behind a screen all day, it's silly to hold (yet) another rally here in San Francisco.
It's like Gavin Newsom campaigning against Prop. 8 in San Francisco (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/detail?blogid=47&entry_id=32366). Preaching to the choir is fun, but pointless.
We don't need to persuade ourselves! Another rally/march/demonstration/whatever won't do a damn bit of good.
Well, we're certainly already persuaded. My take on these rallies and protests in San Francisco is that it gives pissed-off people a way to walk off that anger, and it's also a good way to meet like-minded people and groups to organize and make a greater difference. Think of it as an activism trade show.
Click here:
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/polls/#CAI01p1
scroll down down down...nearly at the bottom....until you see "Vote by party ID" and two below it..."Vote by ideology"
And sfrealist, if you recall in this post, Milk was mentioned as an example for Kors to follow. I believe there were multiple rallys depicted in the film after out of state repeals of gay rights ordinances occurred.
Kors would have 0 impact in DC on 1/20 amid a sea of Obamaphiles. If more people showed up for their own self interests in SF over the past 8 years (like they seemed to do in the 1970s as shown in the film) perhaps we wouldn't have lost 8 or maybe have even kept it off the ballot in the first place.
But since we put our faith in the Democrats - AGAIN - in the face of what history and experience has shown us - we once again find ourselves dismissing ourselves and putting all our eggs in Feinsteins (for example) basket.
We aren't going to vote republican (although there are some that are actually MORE progressive than Saint Obama, had McCain picked Olympia Snowe as a running mate, I would have considered it), but we can give our vote to other politicos and most importantly our MONEY to other causes. Personally I was turned off by his winking at homophobes and FISA vote and cast my vote for Cynthia McKinney, who did represent my views. It was quite clear that Obama wasn't going to lose California or the election as a whole.
i think the main flaw that people are making here is in thinking that geoff kors would have the opportunity to "sit at the table" in washington even if he did attend the ceremony. There are estimates that millions of people will be in the audience on 20 january. geoff kors would just be one of many people packed like sardines to watch obama accept the appointment. HELL, my BROTHER was invited to the inauguration (his roommate is slightly connected). an invitation to the inauguration means nothing, and it certainly doesn't provide a chance to make a difference.
a demonstration DURING the inauguration (if that is what people are suggesting?) led by Kors would be petty and disrespectful as it would interrupt the historic inauguration of the first black president.
i'm disappointed with the way that geoff and others ran no on 8, but i totally understand where he is coming from on this issue.
Some random thoughts in no order whatsoever:
1) I don't see how Geoff Kors' presence or absence at the inauguration will have any effect on anything one way or the other.
2) The Christian conservatives do need to be reached out to, absolutely. But my gut feeling is it's more effective to reach out directly to individuals and not go through leaders like Rick Warren, James Dobson, Tony Perkins, or any of the others. If you can change the minds of enough of the conservative grassroots, so to speak, the leadership will adapt or lose some of their status.
3) There's a lot of understandable kvetching about the fact that Obama publicly opposes same-sex marriage. But then he also shows public support for LGBT rights, even mentioning gays and lesbians in his acceptance speech. So personally, I have no idea how committed he really is to equality legislation. But regardless of whatever his personal convictions and commitments are, there was just no way he could campaign on a pro-gay marriage platform in the current climate; he'd never have gotten elected. My feel is that he'd support any equality legislation put before him, but he's not going to fight for us. That's up to us.
4) Maybe the inclusion of Rick Warren in the inauguration really is part of some larger plan to gain credibility with conservative Christians and ultimately bring them around to his side on issues. And maybe that does, in fact, include equality legislation. But if that's the case, he's asking us to place an extraordinary amount of trust in him, far more than I think is justified at this point.
...and we wouldn't want to appear as being petty after the new President has his administration and first term blessed by a raging bigot, would we?
That would be rude.
Good God almighty....it's really no wonder we can't get anything done....
i think you misunderstood my post, peej66. i'm all for demonstrations directed at obama. i just think it would be uncool to interrupt an inauguration ceremony. a large-scale demonstration outside of the white house on january 21 sounds like a good idea to me.
I see.
No demonstrations in DC anyway, but here, where WE are - where we live and work and pay taxes and vote and raise our families - we ought to have the courage and integrity to hold our own inauguration that is free of bigotry and compromise and the sham appearance of inclusion.
Let Obama and his party and the xtians and the gay democrat cheerleaders/handwringers have their illusion of inclusion by the reflecting pool.
I'd prefer to not stay at home and huddle by my televisions crying into a candle while Rick Warren speaks - like Geoff Kors will probably be doing with the rest of his timid Democratic party enablers.
San Francisco's Gay marching band will be playing away at least ... and its nice to know Barney Frank is a brutha and the chair on the house finance committee
I disagree that Obama would not have been elected had he been pro-gay marriage. If he had come out early, framed the issue correctly (separate but equal is neither), I think there is a strong possibility he could still have won. Regardless, he has already won. The right wing bigots were DEFEATED. They are the ones who should be reaching out, not the other way around.
Democrats win the votes, and then instead of running with those votes, they bend over backwards for the GOP. I truly do not get it. You never see the GOP pissing off their base, why do the democrats do it with such frequency?
He should go... and bring lots of male strippers.
At least he's only speaking at the invocation. I'm far more (sure I'm not gay, but I'm with ya) flabbergasted at some of the Cabinet picks so far.
The cyclists and supporters of public transit (which includes a lot of the gay community - those guys got double screwed) will be stuck with Ray LaHood for 4 years. Then again, LaHood is probably more likely to adjust his tenure to meet some Obama priority list than Rick Warren is to become a Gay Marriage fanboy.
He's basically saying he will not be part of something that includes people he disagrees with. So he's fucked and by extension is fucking everybody he represents.
And they're called Obamphrodites, not Obamophiles. What do watch, Fox?
He wasn't going to ever be "part" of the discussion, was Kors invited to speak at the thing? No, who was asked to speak? A bigot. While someone was invited who is not a bigot, the guy got second billing to the bigot and its not like he was all that outspoken about being inclusive, whereas the bigot made a big thing about being a bigot for the past few months.
Giving a stage, and inviting to the table are two very different things.
I'm glad to see Kors taking a stand. Gay political groups are usually all to willing to trade their dignity for access.
If Obama wants to work with the gay community, there are some things that should not be negotiable. There's no room to compromise with someone who calls me a pedophile and is working to take away my rights.
Thank you, Mr. Kors for taking a stand on Warren by staying away from Mr. Obama's hatefest. No American who supports equal human and civil rights for all should attend Mr. Obama's event. In the America of my dreams, Mr. Obama would be standing on an empty stage at the inauguration because every American had the courage of Geoff Kors.
I am not surprised, or even disappointed, with Mr. Obama since throwing gays under the bus is not new to him. Remember when Obama sent Donny McClurkin to South Carolina as his representative and had McClurkin stand on the stage at Obama rallies and denounce gays? I am disappointed and ashamed of my fellow Americans for not rising up against bestowing honor on Rick Warren.
It is no longer my event, or the United States' event. Mr. Obama has claimed it for himself by honoring the ant-American Mr. Warren, who is an activist for denying civil and human rights to those of whom he doesn't approve.
I'm not going to watch the inauguration and I am not going to allow my grandchildren to watch it either. I have already explained to them that Mr. Obama is a bad man who does not respect human and civil rights.
Of course, if real Americans -- those who support equal human and civil rights for all -- get organized and disrupt the inaugural travesty with protests, this 58 year-old grandma may just take her grandchildren to Washington to participate.
That would truly be a proud moment: Just as the Bigoted Obama is making history, we can make history by standing up to him and telling him we don't allow segregated schools, discrimination in the workplace, or anti-miscegenation laws and we won't allow him to slap gay and lesbian Americans to satisfy his own bigotry.
Thank you again, Mr. Kors.
http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1867664,00.html
"Obama has proved himself repeatedly to be a very tolerant, very rational-sounding sort of bigot. He is far too careful and measured a man to say anything about body parts fitting together or marriage being reserved for the nonpedophilic, but all the same, he opposes equality for gay people when it comes to the basic recognition of their relationships."
I think your view is a bit naive. There would be no coalitions built by Geoffrey Kors participating. I think his refusal to come is an excellent way to make a statement, and I think more public figures should join him. Maybe then Obama will take gay rights seriously.
If Obama were giving a chance for Mr. Kors (or another equality-minded individual) to speak at the inauguration, then his refusal might have negative consequences.