The Guardian Does Not Want You Driving, or Parking
Scene from Today's Pro-Life Protest On Van Ness
Fisher Pulls Museum Out of the Presidio
Why Are You at Work Today?
Sarah Palin Quits
No-on-8 folks, this isn't necessary.
Lord knows the other side, if you will, is just waiting for the stop Prop. 8 movement to use its salad fork during the entree course, so let's keep venom such as the above -- found in Noe Valley, shot on Sanchez Street from the Castro -- to a minimum.
Really, this is almost as hateful as the people who voted for Prop. 8. And it's unfair to LDS ilk who actively fought against Prop. 8.
Or, do you think otherwise? And... why?
Update: The sign has been removed.
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It's absolutely fucking necessary
Besides, wouldn't you rather fuck someone who voted No on 8?
Not cool.
Sorry, I think it's great.
An eye for an eye leaves everyone blind.
Take out their knees instead. =0)
I have zero problem with it. It's a non-violent way to let off steam. I've probably said that very phrase myself three or four times in the past week.
If this person had actually fucked a Mormon they would know that it's not to be encouraged.
Reminds me of a vid I saw earlier, of a no on 8 person grabbing a yes on 8 person's cross sign, throwing it on the ground, and stomping on it.
Stomping on crosses = not a vote-getter
Another fine example of the tolerant, inclusive, progressive homosexual left, in all your douchebagish glory. The majority of California and Americans have spoken with the many initiatives that sent a very clear and unambiguous message. But, as long as you're PROUD that's all that matters!
Charles is a mouthy little bottom.
Man, isn't Free Republic back up yet? Why don't you all go to Conservative Underground and stop bothering us?
If this were in southern Marin, it would read FUCK MORE MOMS.
http://www.instantrimshot.com/
This was an error on the part of the sign poster. He or she most likely meant to put up "MORMONS FUCK", which is true considering how many children Mormon families have.
stepping back, i can't imagine you all think this is at all ok. i mean, i don't and i get off on making fun of people.
Wrong. Definitely wrong. How credible can your wish to "Stop the H8" be when you display a sign like that?
There are ways to vent anger and frustration without validating the talking points of the Yes On 8 crowd. A sign like that is a disservice to everyone, not least of all those fighting the very cause this guy supposedly supports.
agreed.
Since the no on 8 crowd is supposed to be the right side, they should be the ones taking a higher road and not continue the line of spreading hate--otherwise we really are no different and bigoted to single out a group of people. No matter how you look at it, it's wrong.
It'd be the equivalent if prop 8 was rejected and there was a sign up that said FUCK FAGS..we're in the right, let's take the higher road and act that way shall we?
really? in my neighborhood? i thought us yuppies had more tact than that
and sorry brock but im clearly missing the angle here, shot on sanchez from the castro into noe valley, can you guestimate the block for me because im having a hard time picturing where this is
sorry, i know the locale is janky. i'm not sure myself. i'm just going off of what Daniel R (MisterDarcy), the flickr photog, mentioned.
That sign's not hateful; it's just a suggestion. Mormons are wild in bed, but disappear once you turn the lights on. Definitely worth a shot.
It should say "Butt Fuck Mormons" - that would really scare them.
This looks to me to be probably above 30th toward Glen Park, Laidley or so. I'll check tomorrow when it's daylight.
I dunno. I had a gay friend in college who used to be into bagging drunk frat guys. I guess it's kind of the same thing.
I wasn't around during the Civil Rights movement or Women Suffrage. Did those oppressed peoples just lay down and take it?
Don't forget the "Fuck Blacks" sign also. Oh wait...that might get your ass kicked.
What Phlavor said.
I think all you homos need to toughen up them bleeding hearts.
It's not at all clear to me that demonizing Mormons is a bad political strategy. Their own history with the institution of marriage hardly puts them in a position to dictate to Californians. During the civil rights movement, there was clear downside to demonizing Whitey (80% of the pop.) Ditto with womens suffrage (50% of the pop.)
But that's not the case with Mormons.
There are 13 million LDS members.
There are roughly the same amount of LGBT Americans.
Catholics, evangelicals, pentecostals, seculars ... everyone thinks they have freakish theology.
The battleground is the Californian electorate? I'll take that rematch. If anti-Mormon sentiment stokes something of a public backlash against Prop 8? Cry me a river.
The Mormon leadership sucker-punched another minority group just before the clock ran out. They brought this on themselves. And if their parishioners feel unfairly spoken for? Then they have some soul-searching to do. Until they surrender their membership cards and decoder rings ...
Fuck Mormons.
It's not a bad political strategy, it's a moronic one. Put a Maverick on it, that'll get'er done!
Once again travin, your trenchant analysis carries the argument.
Yes, we're at war with an institution called the Mormon Church, which is a hate group, along with many Southern Baptist Churches and factions within the Catholic Churches. Really those groups are about hating women on queers, as much as the KKK is/was about race hatred--the Christian metaphysics attached is superficial, in either case.
Not that one fuck you banner is going to win the war, it's going to get uglier than that little banner. Picketing hate-churches and boycotting Marriot are going to be part of winning the war, as will be supporting pro queer Mormons, as will looking into the eyes of specific Mormons and imploring them to lay down their wicked ways and follow the path of righteousness.
The real lesson is that this battle with the churches is going to in, not with them somehow leaving us along in our little urban enclaves, but with queers getting married in Salt Lake City and rural Mississippi, and women getting ordained as Catholic priests.
"stepping back, i can't imagine you all think this is at all ok. i mean, i don't and i get off on making fun of people."
I don't get you, Brock. You think Jameth and his blog wherein he photographs perfect strangers for no other purpose than to mock them to be "awesome in every way", but angrily expressing disdain for a religious organization that basically supplied 4/5ths of the cash that was necessary to hijack our constitution is somehow bad manners? Has your perspective changed?
Are you a Jack Mormon? Practically all the Mormons I know are gay. I wonder how they are feeling about this whole situation. It must be difficult.
Part of me is a bit disturbed by the fact that it's this Church in particular that is being singled out here when our traditional enemies, the Fundies, and the Catholics were just as active in passing this thing. Of course, neither of those two groups actually chipped in to pay for anything. Still, there is more than a little anger at the Mormons on display here. It's almost as though this just an excuse to unload a whole lolla prejudice that was already there.
oh.
I'd rather the sign say Fuck Mormon Leaders ... I think it was the leadership of the Mormon church that unapologetically chose to order its members to take away rights from the gays in California as opposed to telling members to give the $12-$20 million (somewhere between 40% or so of Yes on 8 campaign's money, supposedly) to the American Red Cross, Hurrican Katrina victimes, UNICEF, a million other non-profit charities that have as their goal to lift people up! Instead, the Mormon leadership ordered their members to kick people down. Fuck Mormon Leaders! ... and boycott Utah!
people are targeting the mormons because they are an easy target. it's stupid. yeah, the mormon church called upon its members to donate and make phone calls, but i'm sure there are plenty of catholic and protestant churches that did the same. one minority targeting another? i think i've seen this before...
good point, oskarv. (also, the same thing started happening with local progressives and the jews - the bile that local progs and semi-notable progressive sites spewed at "zionist hoodlums," if you will, because of the war. it was disgusting. give a righteous white men the chance to hate and, boy, do we run with it. and how.)
anyway, these kinds of targets at the mormon church won't help. they'll make some feel better, but... it won't help. prop. 8's passing is about gender discrimination and people being grossed out by gays. it's so, so, so much more simple than people want to believe.
I can think of 30 million reasons why the LD$ deserve everything they get.
Yes on 8 posters in front lawns really meant, we are going to take away your rights fag. So verbalise it any way you want.
By the way, just got back from the peoples premier of MILK, and boy was it damming to the way the no on 8 campaign was run, amazing. There was one part where the monied gays responded to the Briggs initiative (prop 6) and wanted to run a campaign where the word gay was never used, and words like unfair and wrong were in the literature. Harvey threw the brochures into the fire, and started a grass roots campaign 40 points down and won. I really felt that we had let his leagacy down by our defeat, but boy this movie is perfect timing to continue to fan the flames. GO AND SEE IT, IT IS AMAZING, and you can see the back of my head in one of the crowd scenes, (I am not availble for interviews, please contact my agent)....
Does anyone here actually know from where all the funding came from or are we just satisfied with repeating ad nauseum whatever someone posted on a blog somewhere?
How about instead we get ourselves informed.
SF Chron/Sec State Prop 8 Contributors Database Search
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-metro-prop-8,0,2463893.htmlstory" target="_none">LA Times/Sec State Prop 8 Contributors Database Search
Oh?
Ah.
oh gosh - i agree with the sentiment, but the wording is a bit too, well, fucked, for my tastes.
My boyfriend just resigned form the LDS. On the one hand, it was easy. On the other, it wasn't. Mormonism is more than a 'religion' it's a family, a community, um, yes, a lifestyle. I guess I just want to say that there are wonderful, loving Mormons (like Steve Young, Yum!) who are our BFF's. Let's not forget that. And for joseph smith's sake let's not hurl that pioneer baby out with the mormon bathwater.
HA! HA HA! HAHAHAHAHA That's funny. OMG, I think I peed myself just a little. Steve Young is a big ole flamer. Serious as a heart attack.
Travin, do at least a cursory internet search. You seem to be the only one unclear on the amounts coming from Utah.
Also: Which message works better?
A) You shouldn't be grossed out by two men fucking.
B) Those nutjobs from the YFZ Ranch are hating on Ellen and Anderson Cooper and Lily Tomlin.
I am kinda surprised that since the majority of voters in the state voted yes on 8, that we find a outside group to target and basically blame for the passing. I'm not mormon, and i was no on 8 but it was still californians who voted Yes, right?
Don't take what I say to be for or against the sign, it's just a Arsenio 'things that make ya go hummmmmmm' moment
Ah well...any idea if Mormons can declare a jihad?
Maybe the guy just has a fetish for people in temple garments and wants to encourage others as to how hot this can be.
oh yes thay can FYoCouch247 and yes they did.
do mormons hate us? you betcha!
have mormons been persecuted and become the persecutor? you betcha!
are mormons on the verge of a schism in their church as a result of being on the wrong side of every major civil rights issue since 1955?
YOU BETCHA!
they were wrong on equal rights for african americans.
they were wrong on equal rights for women.
they are wrong on equal rights for GLBT.
Note to Mormons: 3 strikes and you're OUT!
Religion has brought the world a lotta hate, for something that's supposed to be so peaceful and loving.
http://www.mormonsstoleourrights.com/
How interesting. A neighborhood full of expensive homes..who now all look out on all this sign.
Not approvin' or disapprovin', just saying....interesting.
The church went too far.
If they want to try & influence public elections, then they need to start paying public taxes.
There is supposed to be a separation between church & State.
Apparently, the morman "church" wants to give that up.
I say, tax the hell out of them.
Dewd. There's no need to invent ways to win an argument when it's merely a discussion. It's a little obvious. As an example, please point out in what post or statement anywhere that I have contribution sources? Didn't think so.
Besides, judging by your "cursory search" link it only goes to the Mercury news. But I guess if it's written on a media website, it must be true. Right?
Please feel free to dog me on comments sections for the next few weeks to feel better.
"...that I have disputed contribution sources?" that third sentence should read.
Crackalackin!!!
Muck Formons!
Thank the Lord we live in the USA because if we lived in, say, Iran there would be no discussion of who's to blame for the nixing of gay marriage as Iran doesn't have any homosexuals.
What if the sign read "Fuck everyone that disagrees with me."
I don't agree with the sign, but I also disagree with the sentiment that gave rise to such a sign.
Mormons may generally be categorized as a group that oppose gay marriage, but not all do.
I know many gays that could give a shit about this argument. They know they can attain the rights they need without a marriage, and understand that the concept of marriage is just that... a concept... and as such, isn't worthy of conflict. Their opinion, not mine.
I also know Mormons that donated to "No on 8", both gay and straight. They know that this is a "separate-but-equal" law, and that such discrimination is bullshit, but they aren't about to rise up and commit any acts of hate on those that oppose them because that would make them no better than those telling the lies that helped that proposition pass.
No war is won without fighters, but I think the strongest weapon in this battle against discrimination is going to be time. Signs, protests, and petitions are not going to change minds. We need education and enough years to pass for those hateful generations to die and cease handing down their traditions of bias and bigotry.
In the end, signs like this one make me sad for both sides of the gay marriage argument. Nobody is winning.
Sadly, for every Steve Young, who gave money to supports civil rights there is a Danny Ainge who gave money to restrict them.
Travin & Generic, check out: http://mormonsfor8.com
Just pointing out the site.
Picketing hate-churches and boycotting Marriot are going to be part of winning the war, as will be supporting pro queer Mormons, as will looking into the eyes of specific Mormons and imploring them to lay down their wicked ways and follow the path of righteousness.
Agree 100%. But it's tough to do that when you're carrying a sign telling them to go fuck themselves.
As much as I sympathize with the content of this sign, it's bad politics.
I've been in CA exile for this election cycle (voted absentee), but the reports I've been hearing about the No on 8 campaign have been shocking. Tearing down lawn signs? Verbally assaulting supporters? We have a word for campaigns like that: Losers.
Brock nailed it above: The reason Prop 8 passed is because people think gays are gross...or, I would say, scary. That's the Pro-8 narrative: scary gays getting married equals scary classrooms for your kids. The Anti-8 narrative is LGBT: same as you and me. Deserve the same righs that we have.
When you act the fool to vent your hate, which narrative do you think you reinforce?
If you're truly upset with this proposition, and want to see it reversed, spend the time you would hating into canvassing and organizing.
Asinine and classless
This sign just makes me sad.
The reaction of the No on 8 side seems to be simply anger and a desire to blame someone. The fact of the matter is that a majority of Californians voted yes on the ban. I don't like it. But rather than getting angry and blaming Mormons, it seems the goal should be to change the hearts and minds of fellow California voters. This sign accomplishes neither.
Also, for all the charges leveled at the Mormon church, only 12% of the Yes on 8 donations came from out of state, while 21% of the No on 8 donations did (at least according to that Mercury News article linked earlier).
How do you know that it is a no on 8 thing? Maybe they are just ex-mormons.
As an ex-mormon I can say "Fuck the mormons" for a thousand reasons, prop 8 is just the latest.
And really, the word mormon shows too much respect, the preferred nomenclature is momo.
Sure the Mormons are an easy target, but the fact is, there are only 800,000 Mormons in CA total, including children. As you know, Mormons tend to have a lot of kids. The estimated voting population of Mormons in California is approximately 250,000. 5,769,939 people voted Yes.
So basically the majority of wrath is being expended at 4% of the Yes vote, and that's assuming all Mormons voted yes.
Also, DG, at least, may be interested in this page on the LA Times (http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-moneymap,0,2198220.htmlstory). Apparently not only was the percent higher from out of state for No, but the amount was some $1.2 million higher. Might want to be a little more circumspect about screaming that out of state money funded Yes.
The Mormons are a hate group. This sign is markedly less hateful than stripping vulnerable people of their civil rights. The Mormons are one the worst hate groups on planet earth as their involvement in this issue has demonstrated not only to California, but to the world. We need to make sure, make it an absolute priority that these evil jerks lose their tax exemption privileges. Their abject political involvement in this shows they are thieves as well as liars and bigots.
What if the sign read Fuck all the African American Baptists? I find it interesting that that the anger is being directed, Oh so carefully, and ignoring the elephant in the room.
Yes, I voted no on Prop 8, but I think this banner stoops to the level of those who supported Prop 8. It's hate both ways.
I hope all people on the fence see over this issue see this. This only plays favorably to the most blinded and irrational factions of the far left. The rest of us, including people on the fence over this issue, find this reprehensible, bigoted and representative of the hate we've seen from the No-on-8 campaign from day one. They made the huge mistake of not reaching out but instead the drew a line in the sand-now they reap what they sow. And instead of looking in the mirror to find blame for losing, they blame the other side for being better organized and more focused. Thank you for justifying and making us feel better about the passage of Prop 8.
Sorry, my post should have read as follows: What if the sign said Fuck Blacks and Latinos?
http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache:fmBs5WNT5ZYJ:latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2008/11/70-of-african-a.html+hispanics+and+African+Americans+vote+yes+on+8&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us
We aren't going to get equal rights by being nice. We can make the bull dykes where dresses and ask the femy fags to butch it up and try and act like normal people and politely protesting with flower power signs. Guess what? These religious freaks don't give a fuck.
If they want to play dirty, then I say fuck them over and fuck them up! Finally, someone with some balls in this pussy ass city.
hmmm.....
Fuck? Balls? Pussy?
I'm strongly opposed to Prop 8, but judging from the 3rd grade mentality of the banner, and the supporters of the banner, it really begins to validate luiinsacs point. I don't agree with her politics at all, but I see her point. It's self defeating.
The fact of the matter is that a majority of Californians voted yes on the ban.
No, a majority of the people that voted in the election voted yes on the ban. It is an important distinction.
It saddens me that it takes a simple majority (50%+1) to change the damn constitution, but a supermajority to pass a budget and other legislation.
It also saddens me that those of us who are anti-h8 felt some sort of complacency prior to the election. Had the forces been mobilized as they are now, I think the results would have been different.
And, again I will ask, as I did in the last thread, to those who are pro-h8, "how has your life been adversely affected in the last 4-5 months since people have been allowed their full rights?" I will also ask, aside from religious reasons, why people shouldn't have the right to marry.
These questions have been completely ignored in past threads, and I am genuinely curious.
Um, no. It's not self-defeating.
Did anyone catch the images splayed all over cable news of protesters in front of the Mormon temples? Is the value of framing of an issue completely lost on you?
On Andrew Sullivan's site:
Sounds like standard civic participation, right? But remember, Mormons are not allowed to dissent.
Those who openly speak disagreement with the church's orthodoxy are routinely excommunicated (you can easily Google public examples, most are secret). There are reports on public websites that Mormon Bishops even questioned individual’s actions supporting Prop 8 in “Temple Interviews,” a form of confessional where members validate that they are living up to the highest church standards.
Questioning support for Prop 8 in such a setting is an implicit threat to the individual’s church membership and continuation as a member of Mormon society. Deliberately complicating matters for outside observers, church members were ordered to disguise their actions. Official church orders told them to disguise their Mormon identity, not go in pairs, and not to wear white shirts and ties.
As the campaign escalated, the church broadened its call to members, drawing in activists and money from around the country. So although Mormons are less than 2% of the California population's, several gay websites claim that over 70% of the private money donated in support of Prop 8 was Mormon. Yes, some Mormon individuals stood up against their church. Of the 13+ million Mormons, about 300 signed an online
petition. A Mormon ex-football player’s wife put out a supportive statement. He didn’t join it.
This is why liberals lose and conservatives win. You can sing kumbaya, or you can grab a 2X4 and kneecap the ones who took your rights away. This is not just a temperamental distinction.
Keep waiting. I've asked that question numerous times and have yet to get an answer.
What a surprise: a Quelle Horreur echo chamber.
What if the sign said "Fuck Everybody I don't agree with"? It doesn't.
What if the sign said "Fuck Blacks and Latinos"? It doesn't.
And for those who ask "Why poor, poor Mormons???": they bankrolled the lies and hate, that's why. From the top down to the unwashed masses that ponied up their hate money to disenfranchise us, they more than anybody else have the blood on their hands. It's not their numbers that matter, it's their cash that matters. Cash that is funding their wholesale disregard of the 9th Commandment. If they don't like being singled out, by all means they can crawl back under the rock they came from.
As for the Quelle Horreur set: sorry, this is personal now. Save me all of your hand wringing lectures about how if only we were good little faggots we might, someday, maybe, somehow, be invited to the Chapel of Love. No. No more Mr. Nice Gay. Fuck Mormons.
All American gays should move to Utah, overwhelming the 2 million people who live there now, and elect the nations first all-gay state government. This gets gay marriage, pays back the Mormons & shows the world that they shouldn't fuck with gays (unless they're of appropriate gender and attractive.
Where was all this energy before the vote?
I like it but then I'm more of a "by any means necessary" kind of guy rather than a "I have a dream" kind of guy..
very good point, sfjoe. it does seem to boil down to those two camps -- at least right now it does.
And one last thing, Brock sez:
"Really, this is almost as hateful as the people who voted for Prop. 8."
Let's review some facts here: Mormons bankrolled 10's of millions of dollars to strip me of my civil rights. I put up a sign after the fact with a naughty word that offends some tender sensibilities.
"Almost"? "Almost" if you are a complete fucking moron who doesn't understand what it's like to have your family stripped of its civil rights. Equating disenfranchisement with mean speech is clueless and offensive. Get some perspective of exactly what just happened.
The Obama campaign.
Because we thought we were winning, we prioritized torture, war, spying, etc., over gay marriage. Everyone did.
The Mormon leadership timed it perfectly. They saw their opening an they took their shot. To their credit, they nailed it. This is a victory of tactics, not of values.
Im all about it! Its a Multi-billion dollar cult that sells magic underwear! And so what- have you not seen the "God hates Fags" tshits? We should all be a little more militant for our rights!
Yes, as far as civil rights go, I was always more of a Malcolm X person than a MLK person.
First comes anger, then comes action (hopefully).
this isn't pointed to one commenter in particular, but: where was all of the wonderful energy before the election? just saying.
Among my friends the energy was spent in Nevada and New Mexico campaigning for someone who had the election in the bag. (It's always easy to jump on the Bandwagon)
It is my 1st amendment right to express myself. I am fed up with the media, churches, countless associations and individuals putting me down for being born Gay. Fuck Anyone who tries to squash my rights. Yes the sign is offensive, so were the Lies and Intentions of the Momo Church. I don't blame the voters completely because they were not making their decision based on the facts. The Yes on 8 campaign was filled with Lies and exaggerations. I don't care who I offend. The "Silent Voice in my Head" tells me that the time is now to take a stand. I am mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore. People who identify as Mormon but say they are against Prop 8 are hypocrites. You choose to associate yourself with an aggressively hateful Church/Cult. You can leave your church, I can't leave being Gay anymore than a Black Person can change the color of their skin. Whether you want to admit it or not, the Momo Church funded this and they should feel the heat for it. Plain and Simple.
Hey, Brock. That's what I said (comment #71).
oops. sorry about that.
um, what davitydave said!
the energy was spent ... campaigning for someone who had the election in the bag.
A six-point win is not in the bag.
Again, we know where all the energy was before the election. It's just a cruel irony that the
pro-Obama surge spelled victory for Prop 8.
They got theirs...It's our turn now. As John Paul Jones is credited for saying, "I have not yet begun to fight!"
Where is this house? Any guesses?
The electoral vote count was lopsided, so much so that many of the motivated progressives certainly could have spent time (and money) here in California "acting locally" instead of worrying about the 10 electoral votes from New Mexico and Nevada combined.
@ mushmouth
The electoral vote was lopsided in retrospect. And to think that those electoral wins didn't have down-ticket effects on the House, the Senate, State governorships, legislatures, is just plain naive. There are a lot of important issues in the country/world, and that was a fight we absolutely couldn't lose. Campaigning for Obama wasn't just campaigning for Obama (with the results you see in Prop 8.) It was for the Supreme Court and abortion rights and global warming and gazillion other things as well.
Also, you're completely ignoring the function of timing in this election. We didn't know prop 8 was a danger until the very end. If you'd have said to us in September, "Hey, the next-door Crazy Cult is gonna mobilize it's entire infrastructure to disenfranchise gays" we might have done things differently.
But blaming motivated progressives for not having a crystal ball has all the wisdom of a circular firing squad. It also alienates those of us who, pumped up after an Obama win, are directing our energies towards this fight.
Stop being such weak sisters! You remain passive, you get rolled over. Do you think those mormon a**holes are going to stop here? They'll take their tactics to EVERY STATE, including Massachusetts and Connecticut. They will be emboldened by their success in California.
Passivity guarantees that we lose again and again. No social movement for equality has succeeded simply by asking nicely and being meek.
I would like to see more outlandish attacks against Christians and in particular, mormons. Perhaps a campaign publicizing what they own with their religion status, what kind of businesses, how profitable and how much they DON'T pay in taxes both on business and property. Publicize their beliefs, even going so far as attacking their more bizarre beliefs like polygamy among the mormons and the pedophilia among the catholics.
This is WAR people. They declared it, not us. Don't fall into the trap of being cowed and shamed by defeat.
You do realize that in other less civlized places, taking rights AWAY from a group leads to more than just a "FUCK MORMONS" sign, right? People start wars and terrorism against those who strip them of their rights. And rightly so.
oh my.
I had enough of a crystal ball to see and urge those around me to redirect their efforts.
We don't speak for each other.
You may all prefer the sign said something different, and if so then write what you like on the side of your house. Freedom of speech, lame as you may think it is.
I don't think everyone who voted yes is a Fred Phelps god-hates-fagser, and it would be similarly idiotic to think that everyone who voted No on 8, or supports its repeal, agrees with the "fuck mormons" sentiment.
But some people definitely do - to the point of writing it in hot pink letters on the side of their house. That's the truth.
(LDS FU, FYI)
Now it's the Mormon's fault because they have money? Gay folk have got money too, but apparently the issue wasn't important enough for them to raise an equal or greater amount.
That makes sense right?
That sign is just stupid.
@mushmouth: never, EVER underestimate the crazycult.
If y'all didn't see this coming, you should have. I kept wanting to yell my dire warnings at all the guys who kept laughing me off in the Castro, but I didn't want to sound like a total nutjob.
Well yah, gay folk do have money and lots of it. More than most non-gay folk. Maybe we should be protesting gays for not spending enough on Prop 8.
What is particularly embarassing for liberals and gays (of which I'm both) is the double standard of ethics. We preach tolerance and acceptance, and demand it for ourselves, but we show none of it in return to those who don't believe as we do. Hence, "Fuck Mormons" and "Fuck Bush" are the immature responses of the day, like Maude slamming the front door in people's face of those she disagreed with.
What happened to the liberal approach of sitting down at the table and talking it out? The art of understanding and compromise? I guess that is just as beneath us. But yet we expect that to be done between world leaders instead if war invasions.
If you're one who thinks that lashing out with vulgarities and protesting The Mormons is the right thing to do than I am sure you will understand why world leaders cannot "talk" it out, and that war and terrorism are the only responses.
What happened to the liberal approach of sitting down at the table and talking it out? The art of understanding and compromise?
This is what led to my moving out here. Some people cannot be reasoned with and I got sick of beating my head against a brick wall.
I agree, Xander.
I think what is particularly frustrating about this issue is that we CAN'T seem to have useful discourse. I absolutely respect people's right to their religious beliefs...until it infringes on others' rights. They cannot seem to separate those beliefs with civil liberties - including women's rights, too. So when we ask the religious folks questions, they just shut down/stop answering/have no good reason other than God (and, FWIW, Jesus would have voted no on Prop 8).
What I don't get is that the Mormon's seem to have lost their sense of perspective on this one... their church had to go start a state because of persecution, yet they are now persecuting others.
I saw Religiolous last night, and was shocked (in a good way) by some of the teachings of our founding fathers, many of whom spoke out against religious meddling in our government. Roosevelt, I think it was, called it an abomination. Quite enlightening.
@ Xander
Exactly.
Uptight Mormons, fightened Catholics, crazy Evangelicals (helloooo...the GREATEST threat to US security because they want armagheddon..and pronto!), bitter African-Americans (what? gay people are suppose to pay because you are discriminated against?!?!?), superstitious Chinese-Americans (who thought voting yes on 8 was lucky?!?!?) -- whatever, they have no business voting (or being allowed to vote, frankly) to take rights away from others. And the "I really don't care, but..." comments???? -- yes, exactly what many said in Germany when the Nazis began carting people away. I only hope my HOA lets me put up such a message -- especially during this loving holiday season.
great point, Xander.
And by Roosevelt, I meant Jefferson.
Clearly I started drinking too early today.
@ Xander.
Fail.
What bananaanna said. Simply put, There Can Be No Tolerance of Intolerance.
Yeah, you can do twee little logic backflips on how tolerance must encompass intolerance, (otherwise you yourself are intolerant,) but that's daft.
Sitting down with foreign leaders is of no use if they're not willing to negotiate. Similarly, Mormon leaders are not open to understanding and compromise. Don't believe me? Ask them.
You're assuming they share your (distinctly) liberal values of "tolerance and acceptance." They don't. You're bringing a spork to a gunfight.
"Talking it out" is often not the correct response when two parties are in opposition. (See Chamberlain, Neville.)
I'm bored of people who expect everything to be everything. I'm talking to all the peeps here saying "Why doesn't it say this? Why doesn't it attack this group?" It's two words and he chose FUCK MORMONS. His house doesn't have enough room for anything else. It's his house, his words, his choice. Agree or disagree. He can do it and you can't or haven't. I support. And I'm wondering if he's going to add christmas lights so we can enjoy it all the more on these darkening winter nights. Do something better or shut up. Bye bye.
This sign is definitely not cool, but I too share the posters frustration with the Mormon church and other religious groups. I don't liberals or gays are asking for a war...I mean we are anti-war, but I think that we are about to enter a moral war in this country, or at least in California.
Thoughts meander like a restless wind inside a letter box
they tumble blindly as they make their way across the SFist blog -
nothing's gonna change my world, not Mormons or anyone else.
All the talk about energy or money before or after the election is still ignoring that this isn't the sort of issue where people really can be influenced in that way. You think that being gay is wrong, sinful, a choice, and that if Prop 8 isn't passed they'll teach your kids that it's OK to be gay in school or you think that being gay makes as much difference as shopping at Lucky rather than Safeway and everyone deserves equality under the law. Money and protests aren't going to easily change people's minds on this issue.
Looking at the difference from Prop 22 to Prop 8 it's actually rather heartening. Prop 22 had 4,618,673 votes (61.4%) for versus 2,909,370 against (38.6%) while Prop 8 passed by the much slimmer margin of 5,769,939 (52.3%) to 5,266,794 (47.7%). I think the crucial thing to do is to look at what changed between then and how the voting breakdown worked out between the two elections as it was basically exactly the same text. The number of votes in favor went up, but the number of votes against went up by a significant margin. Was this due to increased youth voting this year? I doubt social attitudes have changed that significantly in only eight years.
Money and ads don't really affect how people actually feel. We need to look at how that changed and how the electorate changed.
You people who are claiming that mormons were simply exercising their rights to participate are missing the point. They TOOK RIGHTS AWAY FROM ANOTHER GROUP to choose who they want to marry. This wasn't a ballot measure to allow dog racing or a new freeway. This was TAKING AWAY RIGHTS given to gay people by the courts who used to be the interpreters of the "rule book" we all decided tot live by many years ago. This wasn't a court giving criminals the right to commit crime either. It was to allow adult humans marry the person they want to marry.
And a group of people got together and took that right away.
No mercy for mormons or any anti-gay religions. Don't be cowed by defeat, you weakened gays, wanting to "win over" the intolerant. Fight them on their turf, in their churches and in their homes since they reached in and messed with yours.
Their success will only embolden them to do it again. Next Massachusetts, Connecticut, wherever they can moblize their evil cult members.
They will be stopped.
Have to comment . . . all these protests and juvenile postings seem to be tamtrums. It is similar to a 3 year old child not getting his way, so is now running around stomping his foot and saying "fuck" to get the attention of the adults in the room.
Get over it. Society gets to determine this one. Society in California has twice now stated that a marriage is between one man and one woman.
If you want to, try again on the next election cycle. Regroup and try again. I didn't get everything I wanted this election either . . and probably Santa will not bring me all I want for Christmas.
Hey, no problem. In the meantime, businesses and individuals that voted for Prop 8 will be targeted for destruction of their businesses. Mormons will be harassed for their actions. The backalsh against the mormons is only just beginning.
I already heard a story about a restaurant owner in WeHo who gave money to Prop 8's passage who is being protested.
She can kiss her business goodbye. Here's to seeing her go under. Maybe the mormons will rescue her. LOL
Peoples' rights should not be put up to a vote. If you had lost rights in the last election instead of simply not getting to see Sarah Palin in power, you would be angry too.
See you at the protests outside the mormon temples! They'll be going on for months. Just yesterday 10,000 protested at a cult temple in NYC. Watch this thing grow to consume the church.
Wow the Mob mentality has moved to the left.
No matter how bad the left gets they'll NEVER be as bad as the right wingers. Remember that all of our domestic terror has been done by CONSERVATIVES. There's nothing as dangerous as a conservative that gets pissed when they don't get their way. Remember McVeigh? Abortion clinic bombers? Gay bashers? Eric Rudolph and his bombing the Atlanta Olympics and a gay bar? The KKK?
ALL CONSERVATIVES.
Wait and see the trouble republicans and conservatives will cause now that they're TOTALLY out of power and a black man is President.
The mormons chose this fight. We're just giving it back to them.
Wow the Mob mentality has moved to the left.
It merely follows power. It's just that over the past 7 years it seemed more likely that you would get blackholed to Gitmo if you talked that way.
No matter how bad the left gets they'll NEVER be as bad as the right wingers.
Believe this at your peril. You may find yourself on the wrong side of history, just like the Mormons and their ilk are attempting to do with Prop 8. Overreaching ignores no faction. Aristotle called it hamartia.
You're so full of crap.