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Wish you went to last night's Prop. 8 protest instead of watching Dancing with the Stars? Well, you get another chance. Tomorrow there will be an even bigger protest (Friday) against Prop 8. The march will start at Civic Center at 5:30 p.m., ending in Dolores Park. (Interesting that it's not ending at an LDS temple. That seems to be what's going on in LA today.) It will be going down Market from Seventh, continuing onto Castro and turn on 18th Street which will lead to the park.
Really, people are pissed. We need this second protest to vent. So....have at it, folks.
To find out more details about tomorrow night's march, go here or here.
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Protesting in San Francisco is preaching to the choir.
There are two places that protests are effective: the centers of opposition and the centers of power.
In California that means protesting in Sacramento (power), or protesting in places like Bakersfield (opposition). If we just stay in San Francisco, that just shows that we're defeated -- only able to stay in our little ghetto.
Martin Luther King knew this. He organized protests where the repression was the worst, and then when it came time to protest in Washington, he organized a massive bus lift to bring the people there.
In LA they are protesting the Purpose Driven Life dude:
http://saddleback8protest.blogspot.com/
Thanks, Brock, for keeping attention on this. We gotta stay dedicated and not get passive.
SFHope - I agree 100%...but, maybe the news media will pick it up and it will be seen in the anus-holes that voted Yes.
Any weekend protests on Saturday or Sunday?
I agree with SF Hope. There needs to be a massive road trip to SLC for a big fat protest in front of their church.
Avoid all you want but at some point, you will have to address those black and hispanic voters. And "pushing" them will only enhance their resolve...trust me.
Also, the gay community might want to avoid further comparing gay rights struggles to the civil rights movement.
Believe it or not, many blacks find that highly insulting.
If my candidate had just won the most historic presidential election in our nation's history, I'd be celebrating instead of being Debbie Downers.
Blacks Americans have endured centuries of inequality before reaching this moment. You might do well to remember that by expressing a bit more appreciation for how far we've come rather than what we didn't get.
The black and Hispanic communities are going to be difficult to change. Due to strong religious beliefs collectively they're staunchly against homosexuality and especially gay marriage. However, individually, it's far more common in their communities than they're aware. Typical of religious cultures, divergent sexual practices are still present in the same percentages as the broader culture, just they're driven underground. It's a subculture mimicking the broader culture, minus about 20-30 years of development.
This may take awhile.
Other numbers paint an even grimmer picture. If exit polls are to be believed, some 70 percent of African-Americans voted Yes on 8, as did 52 percent of Latinos and 49 percent of Asians; each of these demographics went heavily for Obama, blacks by a 94-to-6 margin. Los Angeles County, heavily minority, went 50-50 on Prop 8. These results have shocked gay activists, who knew from earlier polls that black voters favored Prop 8, but they were seeing much smaller margins, closer to 50 percent."Avoid all you want but at some point, you will have to address those black and hispanic voters. And "pushing" them will only enhance their resolve...trust me.
Also, the gay community might want to avoid further comparing gay rights struggles to the civil rights movement.
Believe it or not, many blacks find that highly insulting.
If my candidate had just won the most historic presidential election in our nation's history, I'd be celebrating instead of being sore losers
Blacks Americans have endured centuries of inequality before reaching this moment. You might do well to remember that by expressing a bit more appreciation for how far we've come rather than what we didn't get.
I'll be there. I disagree that we need to go to Sacramento. If they see protests all over the state, I think it shows that people everywhere are pissed off about this.
If someone organizes a road trip to SLC, sign me up.
Hey, Obama will be a great president, that's why I gave him hundreds of dollars and volunteered for him. It's not raining on his parade to stand up for equality - on the contrary, that is exactly what Obama and those who came before him would do.
If you just want to blow off steam, fine. But don't pretend that all of these protests held after the election are going to advance the cause at all. These protests should have been held BEFORE the election, when there were some actual goals that could have been accomplished, like stopping the flow of money from the LDS.
It is becoming increasingly clear that the NO ON 8 leadership, though well intentioned, were not up to the job and wasted valuable resources with a badly organized and executed campaign, including extremely poor ads. There also appears to have been a lack of research, or a failure to act on that research. We should have known that the LDS and several minorities would be areas of concern long before the hate money started rolling in.
The Christian Coalition of America has announced that their new goal is Prop. 8-type amendments in the remaining 20 states that don't already have one, incl. MA and CT:
http://tinyurl.com/648brb
We need to get ready and start a new national organization, learning lessons from the Obama campaign, and finally get an organization that has a clear strategy, finesse, knows how to operate on several fronts (minorities, religions, states), and plan for different scenarios. We did some of this with ACT UP, and we can do it again.
Blacks have endured centuries of inequality, yes.
But, er, so have gays. Or are you telling me that if the oppressed black people in the south were gay instead of black, everything would've been hunky dory?
The only benefit to being gay is that it's way, way easier to hide than being black. If there were somehow some perfect white paint that black people could've used to hide their skin, I still would've considered them an oppressed people. Can you imagine people being "closet african americans"?
Segregationist laws, Jim Crow laws, etc. got repealed nationwide far, far before sodomy laws, the last of which were only struck down a few years ago.
Yes, gays didn't have to ensure a life of slavery. Instead they just got thrown in prison, castrated, or beaten/stoned to death.
I'd say that comparing the gay civil rights movement to the black civil rights movement is damn well a good comparison.
Or when they were "separate but equal" should we have told African Americans that they should be grateful for how far they'd come? Gays don't even have that in most of the U.S. yet.
I disagree that we should somehow back off comparing this movement to the civil rights. This is the civil rights movement of our time. We are demanding the government not treat individuals as second-class citizens based on some arbitrary grounds that the government has no business in anyway.
I'd like to humbly suggest that we start making the argument to all those who voted for this (yes, that means actually talking to people, not at them) that not only does this amendment create different classes of citizens, but just as importantly, this amendment blurs the lines between church and state as it fundamentally adopts a religious definition of marriage for governmental purposes. There are actually many religious people who will (and have already) jumped on that bandwagon.
(Yikes, sorry, I meant "back off comparing this movement to the civil rights movement.")
SFMan,
I agree. I've always been a big proponent of Dean's 50-state strategy. It's one of the reasons I campaigned so heavily for him back when I lived in a certain red state that sent a whole ton of money to Prop 8. (In my tiny isolated town of 50,000 people that was the "big city" for hundreds of miles, one donor alone sent Prop 8 $100,000 XP )
We need a 50-state strategy of our own.
i won't be there, but i support it 100%
@lahipster
The problem is that stating the truth, that our struggle is a civil rights struggle, clearly earns more votes and sympathy from other segments of the population than we lose from blacks. This is where an Obama-campaign approach would be extremely useful, researching these different scenarios and coming up with several strategies. There are ways to address these concerns.
As for expressing a bit more appreciation for how far we've come, please remember that at the beginning of the civil rights movement it was gays and blacks together. We started off in roughly the same place, except more gays could "pass"; remember, we were still classified as having a psychiatric disease at the time. Since then, I would say that they have actually benefited far more than we have in many ways; there are many more laws offering protection based on race than on sexual orientation and gender identity, they can marry, most people wouldn't dream of using the "n-word" but "gay", "fag" and all the rest are rampant, hate crimes against us increase while racial hate crimes continue to decline, and a black man can be president.
Of all the lesson's Barack Obama's election should have taught us, we should have learned that with good research, proper organization and a good strategy, victory is possible against seemingly impossible odds.
Brock
can you help a fellow Bear out? Do you know of any protests at the Mormon Oakland Temple?
I was at the candlelight vigil last night and people there were passing out flyers for a rally in front of the state capital building in Sacramento at 1pm on Sunday.
LAHipster - thanks for your "insightful" comments:
"Also, the gay community might want to avoid further comparing gay rights struggles to the civil rights movement."
Ohh . . . I'm sorry Lord "Oppresseder than Thou" WTF do you think we should call our gay rights struggles? Petulant Fags Wants Sums Rights Too? Is Civil Rights 2.0 acceptable. And please show me your copyright on the term you BIGOT.
"Believe it or not, many blacks find that highly insulting."
True, and I find your willingness to deem acceptable such attitudes that want us to wait at the back of and in the case of Prop 8, get run over by, the BUS, condescending and more than HIGHLY INSULTING.
"If my candidate had just won the most historic presidential election in our nation's history, I'd be celebrating instead of being Debbie Downers."
What a flippant moron you are!
"Blacks Americans have endured centuries of inequality before reaching this moment. You might do well to remember that by expressing a bit more appreciation for how far we've come rather than what we didn't get."
I supported Obama during the primaries, I contributed to his campaign, I phoned for him. I understand and appreciate the importance of his election to ALL AMERICANS, not just BLACK persons. Nice of you to just sweep away our concerns with a flip of your wrist.
Why don't you just take your Oppresseder than Thou attitude and shove it right where the sun don't shine along with that Bible that your Sheeple were using to comfort themselves with during your "centuries" of oppresion. That Bible they are turning into a whip to keep Gays and Lesbians "in their place".
Just STFU!
Let's not blame other groups for our failure to stay organized, and to really bring our message to the people. No on 8 was nothing more than a fundraising organization that did nothing to really get gay families and families of gay families in front of the voters and offer direct action opportunities for its thousands of supporters.
There was something on the news the other night about how Hispanic voters were split (voting 53% for Prop 8) while apparently white voters were 49% for Prop 8 and somehow decidedly against it.
That's BS. 4% is not that big of difference. Both groups were split. Period. One just split one way and one split slightly toward the other way.
Let's not blame other groups for our failure to stay organized, and to really bring our message to the people. No on 8 was nothing more than a fundraising organization that did nothing to really get gay families and families of gay families in front of the voters and offer direct action opportunities for its thousands of supporters.
There was something on the news the other night about how Hispanic voters were split (voting 53% for Prop 8) while apparently white voters were 49% for Prop 8 and somehow decidedly against it.
That's BS. 4% is not that big of difference. Both groups were split. Period. One just split one way and one split slightly toward the other way.
I'll be there. I disagree that we need to go to Sacramento. If they see protests all over the state, I think it shows that people everywhere are pissed off about this.
No, since it's not happening "all over the state" it shows only that people in San Francisco are pissed off about this. Huh. Who knew, right?
Leaving aside the irony of saying that we don't need to go to Sacramento because protests are happening "everywhere," which they aren't...
manys: you're wrong. the buzz this protest has caused has ALREADY resulted in another scheduled protest in San Jose, this sunday, at 2pm.
Wow homophobes find it "highly insulting" when homosexuals find similarities in their situations. That's kind of a no-brainer.
"Let's not blame other groups for our failure to stay organized, and to really bring our message to the people. No on 8 was nothing more than a fundraising organization that did nothing to really get gay families and families of gay families in front of the voters and offer direct action opportunities for its thousands of supporters."
Agreed we had enough shoot ourselves in the foot moments along the way. Elitist "leaders" of the campaign who were not pro-active enough, nor responsive quickly to the lies the Yes on 8 People were spreading.
Why didn't they debunk the "Teach it to Children" lies. Yes on 8 cited the Superintendant's website - that's easily enough refuted - print it and call it a lie.
And then there were our wonderful "gotcha" moments. Newsome's "coming whether you like it or not" was regrettable but taken out of context.
But WHO WERE the bozo's who gave them the $Million moment and free advertising by dragging their kids to a City Hall steps wedding! Why didn't you just paint a pentacle on the ground and sacrifice a goat, thank you very much.
Has anyone thought of organizing a campaign that calls for SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE!
The government keeps trying to 'keep marriage between a man and a woman due to traditional religious reasons" right?
When did the government start having the right to regulate anything that has anything to do with religion?
Just wondering. We'd love to go, but alas we have a sick young child we need to keep home.
Just wanted to throw my idea out there!
Separation of church and state, while in the right, is a proven loser campaign strategy. Individual rights are a whole lot better.
Tell the hordes that Obama really is a crypto-Muslim. Tell them that fully separating church and state is the only way to keep him from destroying... well, actually, I'm never really certain what the religious types think will be destroyed, but whatever will happen, it'll happen!
Now let's get back to getting god off our money, the prayer out of congress, and the pledge of allegiance de-godded and out of schools (seriously, we have kids swear a loyalty oath... how fucked up is that?).
STRIP THE MORMONS AND THE CATHOLIC CHURCH FROM TAx exemption initiative:
http://www.mormonsstoleourrights.com/
@Aicon & others:
From the mormonsstoleourrights.com website:
Why can't we now write and push for legislation that does just the things the Yes on 8 people said would happen. Now that 8 has passed, they believe they are safe from the above...
Can't we prove them wrong... and maybe include a footnote that if 8 is repealed so does this new legislation.
It's a trickster approach, proving that their propaganda was wrong and incorrectly advertised.
REPOST COMMENT!
again, i can't imagine going after an entire religious group will be a successful move.
the people who funded prop 8 were more than just mormons. sure, there were plenty, but there were lots of other groups, too.
also, catholics have funded way worse stuff than prop 8. so has darth vader. and the wicked witch of the west. see where i'm going with this?
anyway, it's just a slippery slope we're ice skating on here with the above kind of stuff.
I am writing today to urge my white gay friends to stop blaming the black community for the defeat of proposition 8. This blame game fans
the flames of racism and erases the identities of queer people of color and our non-white allies. In order to win any struggle we must
form diverse coalitions. The leadership of the No On 8 leadership ran a reactionary campaign that failed to build the kind of coalitions we
needed to win, and failed to provide a consistent emotionally compelling message to the masses. Now is the time for us to analyze
the elitism and racism in our own community and begin to reach out and build strong,long-lasting, diverse coalitions. Now is the time to explain to the public how this vote hurt our families and denies us critical protections. Harvey Milk would have wanted us to be out,
open, and visibly anti-racist throughout this campaign. Let's make him proud.
I really wish people would realize that the only thing this is doing is causing division in our own community.
Also, the guy heading it up down there is actually homeless, and just drifts from city to city doing this. How can anyone take this serious? Please, from one gay man to the rest of the community, please stop this method of protest, it is causing the community thousands of dollars in lost revenue!
If anyone has been watching the news, you would also see that stations like CNN are already reporting on the division with in our own cause!