SFist: Why Can't We All Just Get Along Conjugate Properly?

Generic

Sat, 06 Sep 2008 16:31:57 -0800

Oh shit. MUNI SUX! (THE) 101! SIEBEL! CRITICAL MASS! DALY! ED JEW! HIPSTERZ! There. That should fix it.

SFist_Jonathan

Sat, 06 Sep 2008 15:07:12 -0800

This is the best series of comments ever seen on SFist.

lucas_sp

Sat, 06 Sep 2008 14:03:03 -0800

"Ignorance and arrogance" is here an example of the rhetorical figure hendiadys (as Jonathan points out above), in which two separate objects joined by "and" function as one single grammatical unit. Although hendiadys is much more infrequent in English than in other languages (especially classical languages), it remains a rhetorical strategy. "Macaroni and cheese" is not a proper noun; it is a good example of hendiadys in English (as is, say, "the sound and the fury"). Here "Ignorance and arrogance" is working as a single unit to represent a single foreign policy that is characterized both by ignorance and arrogance. The speaker of this bumper sticker presumably wants to underline the close collusion of ignorance and arrogance, the way they support each other and reinforce a single policy of which they are two parts. "Sunshine and showers," however, is a poor candidate for hendiadys as its two elements do not work together to suggest a coherent whole; on the other hand, one could easily imagine a grammatical, albeit stylistically flamboyant, weather forecaster proclaiming that "sleet and snow is to be expected today," as "sleet and snow" could work as a single unit, painting a unified and unpleasant picture, that would justify his bending of grammar. To conclude: this bumper sticker is indeed agrammatical. However, style and syntax occupy a plane above that of grammar. One could argue about whether this bumper sticker is making good or poor use of stylistic convention; however to worry about its grammaticality is to misunderstand the multiple facets of language.

mamcart

Sat, 06 Sep 2008 13:57:11 -0800

No! The fact that they are combined here does not change the conjugation of the verb. There is a plural subject, necessitating the use of the 3rd person plural verb form. If you actually wanted to suggest that each, alone, is bad foreign policy you would say: "Ignorance or arrogance is bad foreign policy." You'd be giving an alternative--and showing that only one of these attitudes is necessary to constitute bad foreign policy. (And for the record, "shock and awe" should use the 3rd pers. plural form of the verb: I know popular usage has collapsed its concept into one thing, but technically it's two stages: shock and then awe...) Geez, didn't any of you people have to diagram sentences in school?

mrpractical

Sat, 06 Sep 2008 12:03:14 -0800

Sorry to point out mamcart, "ignorance and arrogance" TOGETHER are the foreign policy. It's just like saying "'shock and awe' is the way to start an ill conceived war." To say "are" would suggest that each, alone, can be the foreign policy. To say "is" suggests that the two are a single unit of foreign policy.

mamcart

Fri, 05 Sep 2008 22:41:46 -0800

No no no! So many of you are wrong!! "Ignorance" and "arrogance" are two separate items. Yes, it would be correct to say "the combination [of two things] is..." but that's because the subject, the word "combination," is singular, and "arrogance and ignorance" in the latter case are merely objects of the preposition. (And for the record, the reason we say "macaroni and cheese is..." is because it refers to a single dish. If you had them separately, you would then conjugate for the plural.) And while we're on the subject, I'd like to address something that's been pissing me off for quite some time--and something that pops up in A LOT of posts: it's vs. its. Its is a possessive (such as my, mine, your, her, hers, etc.). It's is a contraction of it is. If I catch any of your posters making this mistake again, I will hunt you down, I will find you, and I will make you write the rule out 100 times!

SFist_Jonathan

Fri, 05 Sep 2008 22:17:38 -0800

Not.

wchase

Fri, 05 Sep 2008 18:59:51 -0800

the coupling of the subjects is satisfactorily (if not obviously) implied by the context of the statement, making the grammar, in fact, correct.

SFist_Jonathan

Fri, 05 Sep 2008 18:34:01 -0800

Thanks, Generic!

SFist_Jonathan

Fri, 05 Sep 2008 18:32:56 -0800

That said, gkanapathy, with regard to the macaroni and cheese analogy, we refer to the honorable pedant H.K. Fowler: True, grammar may sometimes be overridden if there is a better justification than carelessness or ignorance. For instance, a singular verb is natural where the group forms a compound word like bread and butter, and sometimes legitimate when it conveys a single notion, as in The traditional feeling that killing and violence was against the moral law, where the two words amount to a HENDIADYS meaning a violent killing. But the exception is a narrow one; it is stretched too far if it is pleaded in defence of the earlier quotations; still less can it justify Sunshine and showers is again forecast for today.

Generic

Fri, 05 Sep 2008 18:22:46 -0800

Am I the only one seeing a play on Bushisms ("Rarely is the question asked, is our children learning?") and the Bush Doctrine (preemptive war)? Seems pretty obvious to me: an indictment of simple, unnuanced thinking. But I guess if you have to explain the joke ...

SFist_Jonathan

Fri, 05 Sep 2008 18:21:31 -0800

Brothers and sisters, remember what the good book tells us. In matters of grammar, "the wages of sin is death" (Romans 6:23).

sfmike

Fri, 05 Sep 2008 17:26:22 -0800

This is not a blogsite that should be laughing at other people's bad grammar and spelling. Glass houses, stones, you get the idea.

KWillets

Fri, 05 Sep 2008 17:22:57 -0800

Macaroni and Cheese is a proper noun. Bumper stickers are bad foreign policy.

periqueblend

Fri, 05 Sep 2008 16:53:45 -0800

^^^ this^^^^^ and we "think differently" only bad ad writers think different.

gkanapathy

Fri, 05 Sep 2008 16:52:37 -0800

Exactly. It's not necessarily ungrammatical, and it's not "non-standard". Compare: Macaroni and cheese is a simple dish. with: Macaroni and cheese are a simple dish.

dlj02000

Fri, 05 Sep 2008 16:45:24 -0800

Shazwozzle -- you're right. That bumper sticker does not contain a grammatical error. Alternatively, it could say, "Ignorance and arrogance ARE bad foreign policIES" -- but as it stands, it's correct. Sorry, SFist.

shazwozzle

Fri, 05 Sep 2008 16:32:52 -0800

To quote Winston Churchill: "This is the sort of arrant pedantry up with which I will not put."

dantsea

Fri, 05 Sep 2008 16:31:57 -0800

So where y'all from?

shazwozzle

Fri, 05 Sep 2008 16:31:06 -0800

Is this really a mistake? It would be, for instance, totally correct to say "The combination of ignorance and arrogance is bad foreign policy." Couldn't such a structure be implied by the statement?

superstantial

Fri, 05 Sep 2008 15:59:43 -0800

You do a fine job of illustrating your glass house statement in the following sentence: "But we're beginning to think different about this issue." Thanks!