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Photo by Matt Bellinger
SFist James sends us this photo, care of Matt Bellinger, of some packed albeit controversial Muni action that happened this afternoon during rush hour. Wheelchair man, it seems, demanded to get on per federal law and holds up train at Civic Center; Muni operator and passengers refuse to let him on. Operator was literally screaming at the guy to get out of the doorway of the packed train.
Should he have been let aboard: Y/N?
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I don't see how you could say no to a wheelchair guy. I mean, he's got it bad enough already, and you could always just wait for the next train. (Which should be along in an hour or two.)
But the fact that a shit-ton of people refused to let him on -- in San Francisco, where everyone loves to make a big show about being a good Samaritan -- makes me think that maybe he was doing something really repulsive. Or he smelled.
But I mean really. Given the option between "give up my spot to the awful person" versus "refuse to budge, thereby prolonging the drama," I'd probably have chosen to end the drama.
Muni keeps hitting new lows.
Out of curiosity if anyone happens to know: was wheelchair guy correct that there is a federal law granting him the right to board any train no matter how full? My understanding of the ADA and similar access laws was that they don't pretend to rewrite the laws of physics: a full train car is still a full train car. But I'm not expert and could easily be very wrong.
I was on a train that didn't let him on- it may have been that one.
Considering it was full rush hour and most people on that train had crushed themselves on at Montgomery or Powell, there was no way they were gonna get off for that dude. It's not like one good samaritan is enough, every commuter in his path would have to clear up space.
The law implies that he can have a space on a train, but not that it has to be that one.
I think this is kinda this guy's schtick, as I saw him doing the same thing the other day on the 38. It's the little things, ya know?
Yes the LAW says let 'em in. Paul McCartney 1976 style.
He probably was tired and had to get home to be able to pee. Wheelchair users often have ta holditin.
ok
There's no room buddy. Wait for the next one like everyone else. You are not a king. You are a man in a wheelchair taking up more room so have a little patience. People are too rude to move to the next car for you. Sitting in the doorway of a train may explain why he is handicapped in the first place.
Some people never learn!
um, YES he should have been let on. the space reserved for disabled people has to be available to them. ADA, end of discussion.
Eye the signage on the trains, on the platforms, and the verbal prompts on the buses. Seats must be given up.
Think of it this way. He's got a bulky wheelchair, it'll be much easier to squeeze a few extra people on the next train.
People, when you hang out in the "reserved for persons with disabilities" area on public transit, you run the risk that someone with a disability will actually want to assert their right to that area. If that happens, you cheerfully yield your seat and either displace another able-bodied person or be a good citizen and get yo' own ass off the bus.
i saw this guy get off a muni car in west portal. tonight,as he crossed the street he sat up in his chair, folded the footrests in and started pushing himself like on a skateboard. Then he went into peet's coffee stood up at the counter. All the people who got off with him had the most evil looks in thier eyes. now i know why.
he could have waited for the next train just as easily as 6 people could have gotten out to give him space.
I blame the muni for never having enough trains during rush hour.
We're all assuming that he's handicapped just because he's sitting in a wheelchair.
He probably is legitimately handicapped, even if he has some degree of mobility. However, he is also probably working up a law suit against the city. Bush 1's ADA law was supposed to help mainstream the disabled, but it was really an attack on public institutions.
I know of one visually impaired individual who likes to boast that Muni bought him a nice house in Novato by failing to announce all stops. This isn't urban legend. I've met the guy.
I also have a friend, a wheelchair user, who was denied service because the driver claimed he didn't know how to operate the wheelchair lift. My friend pushed himself off the sidewalk and sat in front of the bus. He told the driver he would wait for him to learn. I'm glad I wasn't on that bus, but I don't have a problem with what he did.
As to good samaritans or the lack of them, the whole idea behind the disability rights movement is that disabled people should not have to be dependent on kindness and charity. They should be allowed to make their own way in the world, just like everyone else. Able bodied people like to shriek about the unfairness of accommodating a small minority, but we are all asking to be accommodated in some way. Why provide stairways in Muni stations? Why not save money and trouble by making riders pull themselves up by ropes? You mean you couldn't pull yourself up by a rope? Well then I guess MUNI isn't for you.
What person in their right mind would want to get on that germ infested overloaded car. One sneeze and you're of of work for a week. Honeycups should protect their health :(
Can't you smell the burning hair and brain matter confounding the many flavors of self-righteousness among us?
- Is this guy some drunk/druggie abusing the system?
- Is he truly disabled?
- Did he have to pee or poo?
- Maybe his momma gave him up?
- Maybe his daddy didn't love him enough?
Such a moral conundrum!
Maybe he really is just star people. He's famous on SFist now!
If Muni reads SFist, maybe they can clarify the law using their overpaid lawyers. Or you are just using that cheap lawyer with the perm shown on local TV during the soap operas, you know that guy with the phone number staring with 444.
'You people' make baby jesus cry.
Title II, the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990.
The gentleman was within his rights.
You surrender your space to the handicapped. Period. It's the law.
I think I know that guy... He or someone like him always panhandles around West Portal by Peets. He gets into trouble with Muni all the time. Last time we spoke I think he was in a MUNI train which breaked suddenly and tossed him out of his chair and flung his head into a seat.
I'm all for him getting his space on that train. Able bodied people can walk there if they have to. He can't. It's that simple.
I saw him using his legs.
We're talking about one wheelchair on one Muni car. Everyone make some room for this guy.
Much as I hate the litigation-happy proclivities of America, I encourage this guy to sue the pants off of Muni.
Hell, we already know that Muni kills people. Why should anyone be surprised that Muni stomps all over someone's rights.
@thisboyelroyI saw him using his legs.
And this means what, exactly? That you can diagnose disabilities through the superpowers of osmosis?
sue muni? fuck you!
sue the piece of shit commuters that wouldn't let him on the train and take the next one in 7 minutes.
losers!!!!
If those two girls could have just sat on his lap, he would've been able to fit in that car...or he could of just gotten up and folded his chair..I've seen this guy before, his legs work fine.
Here's a thought - accessible seating areas in train cars are located at the front entrance of all trains and buses. So why would a practiced disabled person attempt to enter through the middle entrance of the car?
I'm sorry but someone with a disability does not sit so upright in his chair with a look of dollar signs in his eyes as he jams a doorway and makes everyone wait for him. grrrrrr I am not prejudice, as you can see I believe all people regardless of race, color, creed, handicap should be treated equally. No one ever said this life would be easy. Women in high heels should be granted the first seats! Not a guy already sitting down!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
yeah fuck it, let him on.
aint no fun if the homey's cant have none.
right??
No-one abuses the services at the airport for transporting those less ambulatory, right?
And no-one would abuse a "first priority" designation for wheelchairs on public transport, right?
Or would there be a flood of wheelchair-bound George Costanza's come rush hour?
OK let's assume that a majority of standing passengers don't see 'fake disabled homeless guy with dollar signs in his eyes who can use his legs' and that he's actually a handicapped guy. It's here I say, not only has MUNI hit a new low, so have many of the MUNI riders.
How does ADA priority seating affect buses and trains as full as these? It is clear from the signs that one is supposed to give up their seat for a disabled person, but it's not clear that one is supposed to give up their space on the bus entirely. This is just a question. I couldn't find a decent answer to it. Anyone know?
Also, I feel like anyone who rides transit with any regularly builds up a nasty, uncomfortable resentment of the wheelchair bound. They don't want to feel that way, but when six minutes go by while someone is loaded and strapped in.... It's frustrating and it has a ripple effect on the whole system. The bus behind catches up, and they stay bunched for the rest of the trip. Obviously it's not just wheelchairs that cause this, but it's a real problem, and it's spoken of only in whispers and grumbles. Anyone got a good solution?
If he had a valid transfer or MUNI pass they should have tried to squeeze him in. That said, there have been many times that I have had to wait for a second or third bus or train because the one I wanted to take was full.
If he did not have a transfer or pass, then he had no right to expect to be let on to the train.
I don't have a problem standing if someone in a wheelchair wants on the train, but I don't think being in a wheelchair entitles you kick people off the train so you can get home quicker.
tad benton: They feel they same way. It's hard not to feel resentful towards people on a bus who you know are pissed off at you for having been in an accident that left you unable to move your legs.
For the sake of fairness - we have no idea what was being said/what he was doing etc. It's pretty damn hard to believe that whatever he was saying could be so bad that everyone thought this guy deserved to not get on the muni, but who knows? Still, goddammit, let him on the damn train, shit heads!
Also he looks like Mike from Twin Peaks.
He has his feet on the ground which leads me to believe he isn't really handicapped, but is one of those homeless people who somehow obtain a wheelchair and use it to make more money. I see them frequently scooting along with their feet.
That being said, my experiences with the handicapped is that when I've tried to accommodate them by holding the door for them, etc., they get nasty and yell at me.
They want equality? They're just the same as everyone else? Then let 'em wait for the next train like everyone else.
@OrangeDrink,
Ah, yes. Good point. Thank you.
@tad_benton
The solution is more of the lower-riding muni buses and savvier drivers.
I don't know about these people who say it takes 6min to load a wheelchair user, because on my morning commute on the 48 it maybe adds an extra 1-2min onto my ride - max to get the same lady on the bus at the same stop. But maybe its because people have lost the resentment from becoming used to it, and the driver isnt surprised to find a wheelchair user at that stop, but its like clockwork, and there isn't another 48 behind us at the end of the 2 minutes barking at our tail.
Oh, and while I dont know if abled bodied people are required to depart the bus to let on the handicapped, I do know that if 2 handicapped people are already on the bus in the wheelchair spots that a third will have to wait. Or if there is one "service dog" already on the bus and another tries to get on and they start to get tense with each other than the second dog's owner will most likely be told to exit (happens all the time on the 19 midday)
No. Wait your fuckin' turn, cripple.
I know this guy personally. He is, in fact, disabled. He can stand up. He can walk with a cane for very short distances. All y'all who want to play doctor had better learn you can't diagnose without directly observing, let alone speaking with a patient. (Some knowledge of medicine beyond what one gets off sheer supposition helps, too.)
(P.S. I don't claim to have any knowledge of whether or not he was within his ADA rights.)
How many commentators here who say he should be allowed on a crowded train would actually vacate the train and wait for another? Here on SFist it's easy to exclaim, "I would!"
However most would hide behind their sunglasses, earbuds in place, reading a newspaper or book all the while acting oblivious to what's happening because at the end of the day they just want to get home.
Anyone know the outcome? Did he get on the train, or have to wait for the next?
he had to wait for another train.
Was his BMW with disabled permit parked right outside Peet's too?
Those in the disabled space on the train needed to yield to him. The driver needed to make a PA telling them that.
I guess that's too logical to expect MUNI to know to do in a tough situation.