July 8, 2008
Homophobia, C'est Chic?
Former Salon editor/scribe, Grotto sect member, and novelist Chris Colin penned this article for the Chronicle about some mysterious bar in San Francisco that may or may not have acted in a homophobic manner toward his buddy, "Ryan." It seems some dickslice bouncer at an unnamed bar said to "Ryan" as he was trying to entering the watering hole, "Dude, look at your pants. Look at your bag...obviously this is not your kind of place." Here's part of what went down:
"Dude, look at your pants. Look at your bag," one of them said. "Obviously this is not your kind of place."Ryan's pants, since the guy mentioned them, were a skin-tight pinstripe number. His bag was a purse. Ryan, who is gay, told me later he was dressed "totally faggy."
Which brings me to the point of this column: "This is not your kind of place." Was that a homophobic comment? Or was it just random fashion critique -- obnoxious, sure, but reasonably fair game at an occasionally gruff drinking establishment? Given that haziness, how does a well-meaning business handle a situation like this, once alerted?
Not since the early 1990s has being gay been cool, so Colin seems oddly shocked that a presumably hip place full of Obama supporters and PBR drinkers would be homophobic. Or, as Colin puts it, full of "nicotine-y coarseness to throw you back on your heels."
He then asks the reader, "as a society, how do we disentangle generic rudeness from bigotry?" Hmm, there's too much overlap there to do so. What we think he means to ask is should a bar be allowed to kick out fags if their clientele is full of white kids trying to get their Ernest Hemingway on?
Also, we want to know whether or not this is the vile Zeitgeist what bar Colin is talking about? Take a guess in the comments.
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Um... "Planet Big" @ the Eagle?
Ooh! New Yelp Topic! Forget ranting about the waiters. Which bar has the most homophobic bouncers?
The one with all the in-the-closet bikers inside?
No, not Zeit, they only throw you out for patchouli...My money is on the (UN)Lucky 13 or Annie's...
I faggily dressed, with a chihuahua no less, walk into Lucky 13's all the time so I doubt it is them (although it's likely they have a female manager)
Also, since you brought his name up, Obama had his little homophobic tour of the south fund raisers just 9 months ago. Giving a stage in his name to Donnie "Pray the gay away" McClurkin, and G.W. Bush second inauguration performers, and noted bigots, Mary Mary.
One of my Sunset Irish dives, oresumably
I do enjoy that he was not allowed in for being "faggy" because of his choice of fashion and accessories. It sounds like he was trying to get into a sorority.
I don't know. I've had to walk into Zeitgeist or similar establishment in bidness casual a few times and thought they wouldn't let me for lack of visible tattoos or ironic attire.
Yep, I'd guess Pikeys in the Richmond or Sunset or the Eyeties in NB -- the only hood, it should be mentioned, where one fails to see a single rainbow flag on the main drag (i.e. Columbus). But that's a little odd, considering how faggy the Dago waiters dress.
/racist morning
The quote sounds more like it was "Ryan" calling his own costume "totally faggy", not the bouncers.
I've been to Lucky 13 and Zeitgeist with some absolute fairies without incident. I doubt it's them, though I could easily see certain individuals on a bad night be this dickish.
I've never stepped in myself (and I mean, really, would you) but this seems to be in line with everything I've heard about Blondie's.
Not zeitgeist, I was making out with the other half there on Sunday afternoon and nobody said boo
I'm with Incandenza -- are we sure this was a staraight bar? As a geigh, unless that "Ryan" bitch can work skintight pinstripes up into something subversive and sexy (purse? Williamsburg, please), she can go back to netflixing Project Runway and FOR GOD'S SAKE STAY OFF THE DANCEFLOOR.
What I really want to know about "Ryan" is: hair. I'm voting cocka'do.
oh, it could have been a fag bar. that's true. i could see a bouncer at badlands saying "faggy." not that i've ever been to badlands, of course.
I was thinking Lucky 13 or Zeitgeist too. I'm a big fag and love to go to both. I don't really dress faggy, and as a rodeo gay I'm generally more cowboy than biker, but occasionally I do have something that sparkles-- my non random sample indicates the Zeitgeist door guys as the bigger jerks. I'd say I'm hassled at the Z's door 50% of the time, but it is entirely based on if the door guy is trying to impress a girl at the time.
Which I view as desperate, lame, and insecure, so I let it go. I'm cool with who I am. It's more a matter of of door guy not being happy with who he is.
The bouncer did not call Ryan "faggy." Ryan called his own outfit "faggy."
Not since the early 1990s has being gay been cool, so Colin seems oddly shocked that a presumably hip place full of Obama supporters and PBR drinkers would be homophobic. Or, as Colin puts it, full of "nicotine-y coarseness to throw you back on your heels."
Um you misread this... he likes the nicotine-y coarseness. to wit:
Ryan and I agreed we like a little insolence with our beer sometimes. Not rudeness, for rudeness is obtuse and boring. But some nicotine-y coarseness to throw you back on your heels? When executed correctly, we find this far more humane and life-embracing than insipid, soul-deadening blandness.
The (supposed) homophobia is not attributed to general in-your-facedness...
you are all correct. the bouncer did not say "faggy" -- though dede wilsey sure does! -- so i changed the post to reflect that.
sorry. so much for my reading comprehension skillz.
It's O.K. Brock! - we are ready to blame the oppressive heat and/or a poor batch of crack.
Get back on that horse, sir!
I'll bet my bottom dollar it's Molatovs.
That place is very homophobic redneck, has been ever since it changed over from the jazz club.
hql, that and it's just a terrible article. the art-of-writing bs, and all that crap. oy.
I'm sure I wasn't the first one who read the SFGate this morning, stumbled across this article, and then immediately dispatched myself to the nearest crack dealer.
Mistakes were made. Mostly by SFGate editors.
hql, that and it's just a terrible article. the art-of-writing bs, and all that crap. oy.
Former Salon writer, you say? Art-of-writing BS? Shocking!
(With apologies to Heather Havrilesky, King Kaufman, and Cary Tennis.)
What bugs me about this writer is that he ONLY EVER INTERVIEWS HIS FRIENDS. He's written about real estate in SF; getting a home chef if you have kids; and now this thin bowl of gruel about "Ryan" and whatever the hell bar this was. ALL his sources are his pals! Frightened of doing some real investigative reporting, CC? Look beyond your own self-satisfied realm for once.
Devil's advocate:
To give the bouncer the benefit of the doubt, he may have been just trying to prevent trouble, given his knowledge of the bar's clientele. Getting mad at him might just simply be a case of shooting the messenger. Furthermore, it's entirely feasible that the bouncer had the guy's best interests in mind, and was just looking out for him.
Okay, SFist folks, what "grungy" bar has a female manager? Which bar would have *two* doormen? I've never seen Molotov's with two doormen. Actually, even at Zeitgeist I can only remember seeing one, but I try to avoid on weekend nights. Snotty comments? I'd say that awful Danny Coyle place but it's definitely not edgy.
I can't believe the writer went through all these hoops and didn't have courage to name the place. WWMD? What would Murrow do? What would the late, great, Mr. Herb Caen do? Just goes to show, having a journalist friend to air your grievances doesn't matter if they don't name names.
I'm really surprised Lucky 13 is mentioned here at all. Has anyone been treated poorly there? I find it hard to believe, and also don't know why one would drink PBR there with the great selection of beer on tap.
I'd tend to agree with the Sunset/Richmond Irish bar theory, I had an experience there just bringing a non-white person in.
Of course they don't have bouncers, nor would it make for a very interesting story if it was just some no-name Irish bar.
Interest piqued.
A bouncer at Zeitgeist stopped my girlfriend because they were "at capacity" when really he deemed her a bitchy corporate lackey. Which, to his defense, 40-50 hours a week, she is. But, hey, it pays my bills. I had to come out and swear that I'd pour three pints into her to pry the cellphone off her ear and he let her in.
As for Ryan, I bet he was totally clashing and they weren't letting his fashion victim ass anywhere near their fine establishment. I'm surprised this never happened to me at Martoonies.
People who are respectful of others should be able to be who they are wherever they are, and should be able to go wherever they want to without incident.
You say it, Oprah!
So it's cool to hate on ZG now? Hopefully that means it'll be less packed on nice evenings now...
This city really crawls up its own ass sometimes. Seriously, can't we all just live and let live, to each his own, etc? Damn.
When did Zeitgeist become the new Patio?
A bouncer let me into Lucky 13 when I was 17... I've never been back, but I highly doubt that's the place. And I've never been to ZG.
But I do second Molatov's (a.k.a. the bar down the block from Memphis Minnie's). That place gives me the creeps.
I'm starting to think Hemlock tavern.
Hemlock for the many PBR drinkers, the smoking room, and I can picture two guys at the door even though there is no need.