June 30, 2008
Dogs at Cafes, Y/N?
With her pet pooch resting on her shoulder, Kaili Oteri over at SF Metblogs had an unfortunate encounter at a local cafe over the weekend while waiting in line. It seems some "foul man-pile" verbally assaulted her because her dog was in her arms at coffee joint. Having your best friend at a cafe, it seems, it against the law. "It’s the law',' screamed the cranky man. '"Are you above the law? I’ll call the Board of Health." Oteri then somehow managed not to throw hot coffee in his face.
And, yes, it's technically unlawful to bring in your pet canine into a dining establishment, but.. but all doggies need tender baby kisses and lots of special tender ove hugs. Surely, those two technicalities trump such an unfair law, right? And isn't SF, the Paris of the U.S., the place to do it?
| 
add to stumble upon
add to reddit
email this
add to facebook
add to del.icio.us
How big was the dog? Teeny purse dog, IN a purse? The guy was out of line. 20 pound dog, held in arms? Eh, some people get pissy about dogs in public places. Disgusting, rude, freakish people, that is. Some people just get off on bitching.
I saw people eating with dogs in restaurants frequently in France. I didn't hear of anyone dying because of it.
People need to lighten up and mind their own business.
reportedly on her shoulder. i added it above. thanks, bc.
Oh, resting on her shoulder. Maybe the dog's face was eye level with the crotchety old man's face. It wouldn't bother me, because I love all god's four legged creatures (the two legged kind, meh, not so much), but I can see how it would freak some people out.
I don't stand in line with mine. I tether them outside, then rush in, grab my coffee (craning my neck the entire time watching out for dog thieves), then rush back out to sit outside with them. I can't deal with cranky people before I've had coffee.
I'll up the ante and say that it is unethical to own a pet of any kind, nevermind subject the poor beast to holier-than-thou types. Nyah.
If it barks, kill it.
well. that sounds reasonable.
Well, I don't really consider myself my dogs' owner, more like the other way around, so I don't have to worry about ethical implications.
If I owned them, they'd be picking up MY poop.
Animals belong outside, especially at restaurants.
I agree with the cranky old man.
Other than her attitude of entitlement, nothing makes kaili so special that she needs this dog with her while getting her coffee.
You've read my comments before, you know I'm a reasonable man.
Truly, though, a dog inside in someone's arms does me no harm, so congrats. But I've had a lap dog yap at me from across an indoors coffee table. That made even my reasonable mind turn towards calculating puppicide.
Keep in mind I have a Chihuahua living at my house (according to the city, I'm responsible for it)
The problem is that A) there are health implications (or else there wouldn't be a law) and B) lots of people are truly scared of dogs big or small for whatever reason. It's not that big a deal to either tether the critter outside, or go to the cafe with another to watch the dog while one gets their morning coffee.
What really gets me though are the far too righteous dog owners (many of which are actually my friends) who leave their (often times gigantic) beasts UN-tethered outside the coffee shop. They just go over and steal my dogs toys, get right up into his (mildly insecure because he is currently tethered and/or 1/10th the size) ass. But "he is nice" and "that's the first time he has bitten anything". yeah right!
People who don't control their dogs (e.g., OrangeDrink's encounter with the yappy dog) should be exterminated.
I'm not reasonable at all re this. They make all dog owners look bad.
I prefer croissants.
The breed matters.
Dogs and children...people should just leave their toys at home.
I wonder if in the 21st century it's possible for people living in a US urban area to resolve these little disputes without resorting to bellicose bitching and whining, and all sorts of childish behavior.
It's a fucking dog, not a pipe bomb or a gang member with a gun, please people, learn to talk to each other, not yell at each other. Other cities seem to deal with this stuff and it doesn't become a screaming bitchfest of self entitled people in smugland.
I'd throw the coffee.
arrgghhhhhhh: Plug2 will not stop singing that "aint no bugs on me" jingle. its driving me bonkers.
"oh, there ma be bugs on some of you mugs..."
welcome to the earworm that is slowly destroying me.
Might be lobsters on some of you Mobsters....
dogs - OUTSIDE!
My bf goes *insane* when that commercial comes on. I have to be right on top of that mute button.
It's one thing to take your dog somewhere that has tables out on the sidewalk, it's completely another thing to take your dog inside an establishment that serves food and/or drink.
Like other dog owners, I'll sit outside a restaurant like Squat and Gobble on 16th, Cafe Flore, even Bagdad Cafe. I would never dream of taking my dog into the restaurants though. And I don't want other people's dogs in there either.
Service dogs of course I have no problem with being in restaurants or stores, even though getting certification for a service dog is pretty lax here in SF.
Tangentially, I was just shopping at Trader Joe's in SoMa and some guy came into the store walking his poodle-mix. The security guard was walked up to him and told him he had to leave the dog outside and he seemed really taken aback saying he has "never had to [do it] before."
Yeah right.
Greg, I totally agree. I'm sick of people who can't resolve differences like grown ups. I see way too many scuffles around this city. I think sometimes people just go out because they WANT to start a fight. You catch lots more flies with honey in this world. "Miss, I'm sorry, but could you please not bring your dog into the coffee shop, I'm allergic and this is my favorite cafe."
My bf goes *insane* when that commercial comes on. I have to be right on top of that mute button.
My wife hates this commercial as well. And it's not like she hates dogs. She just finds the voice of the puppy irritating. Pretty much if they could just find a puppy with a better singing voice she'd be happy. There were probably, like, 100 puppies who could sing really well and what did they do? They went with the "cute" one. Show biz. Whatchagonnado?
I love dogs ... but they probably shouldn't be brought into eating establishments. While the possibility of shedding dog hair floating into my food probably wouldn't stop me from eating it - I can understand some folks losing their appetites. Others have their allergic reactions ... poor souls.
My worst experience with a dog in an eating establishment in San Francisco? A lovely german shepherd was chilling, lying down near my table ... and he let a face melting fart loose. Granted, humans can do that too ... but holy cow did it stink .. for awhile.
Anyway ... yeah, leave the dog outside. I've been recruited a time or two to watch a dog for a few minutes while the stranger/owner ran into a restaurant to get their carry out food. Hopefully that's worth a good karma point or two. :)
I put dogs and children in the same category, as long the owner has control of them - do as you please.
jcbalaam, he may have been telling the truth. I've been in the TJs in North Beach and seen dogs in there on multiple occasions, with nary a complaint from anyone, TJ security guard (never seen one of those) or otherwise.
I'd be happy to eat with my dog outside, unfortunately, every smelly smoker in SF seems to think I would love to eat with eau d'inconsideration wafting over my food.
If I'm eating, I just leave dogs at home. It's more convenient anyway. They don't NEED to go everywhere with you.
It seems pretty much inevitable that any time any business tries to be "cool" and turn a blind eye towards some basic rules that things will end up being ruined and you'll get tougher rules than before people started to bend them.
The most common scenario is that people start taking the privilege for granted and things get out of hand. On the dog issue, I see dogs in supermarkets as being the straw that will break the camel's back. I mean, seriously, come on, that's so fundamentally wrong. I've been slowly seeing people pull this more and more.
It's dead simple, dogs are like ciggies. If you own a beverage establishment and you want to allow dogs in, then so be it. If you don't like dogs, don't go there. I've seen numpties complaining about the smoke and the dogs in Amber. It's a dog and fag bar, go somewhere else Samantha. I say ban kids from cafes, they're the little bastards spreading shit around the place. Snotty little c**ts. Oh, and leave your piercing voices at home when you next visit an eating establishment. If I have to listen to one more scratchy-voiced female doing her very best Paris impersonation, I'll roll up my copy of Penthouse Forum and poke it up your arse!
And don't go on about the law. Most of you are breaking about 20 decency laws every time you leave the house with those ridiculous pants you bought last week at Villains.
This is earthquake country. One should always keep one's strategic protein reserve close by.
They both sound like a couple of enraged hot-heads and I hope never bump into either of them in a coffee line.
But if I had to get all Judge Judy I'd side with the man. He's right. Dogs aren't allowed in restaurants. If it's tolerated by the owners and locals, great. But if someone complains about it you know you're breaking the rules so you're busted and you need to just go outside and tie up Fluffy for a minute while you get your coffee.
But I agree with all the other posters who pointed out how depressing the behavior of both people is. Can't we show a little civility towards one another? I almost stopped reading her blog post near the beginning when she just goes off dissing the guy's appearance.
Ugly behavior all around.
Intersting usage of that ridiculous commercial. Dressing dogs in human clothes (pretending they can sing, attend summer camp, etc.) and bringing them into human restaurants are both symptoms of the same prevalent delusion.
ummm. don't we have bigger things to worry about than dogs in restaurants or supermarkets? If this is really ruining your quality of life--excluding circumstances in which you are actually bitten or harassed by a dog in such an establishment--then you have it way too good.
Also, whether it is illegal or not, I don't know--I suspect it isn't, or if it is a law, it is not enforced. Nonetheless, establishment owners do have reasonable reasons to keep out animals. I'm thinking of possible accident/personal injury liability. But if customers are disturbed by dogs... sorry, but I don't think they should get the last say. I'm disturbed by your screaming, food throwing children, but for some reason you are allowed to bring them with you into restaurants over my objections. ;-P
anyways. lighten up, non dog-friendly people.
I say the test should be that if it licks in own backside, it should not be allowed in restaurants/coffeeshops/grocery stores. While this unfortunately eliminates most, if not all dogs (which are dogs, not people), it would also exclude quite a few 2-legged residents of SF, possibly said "foul man-pile".
Dogs in restaurants and coffee shops are annoying, as are children. I will not frequent places where animals are allowed inside; clearly the owners are not concerned with food safety laws which prohibit non-service dogs inside of eating establishments. As for people who bring their dogs into a place where this is not regularly condoned, they are being presumptuous and deserve the chance at being ridiculed for it. Be kind to people you don't know; if you're a smoker, ask your table neighbors if it's ok for you to smoke at an outside table. If you own a dog, leave it outside. If you own children, hell, leave them outside too.
"ask your table neighbors if it's ok for you to smoke at an outside table"
the day this happens, I will eat my own shoe.
Dogs should be tied up outside. There are health laws for a reason, and I don't think it's fair to jeopardize the cleanliness of a restaurant, cafe, whatever just because you can't leave the dog outside for a few minutes.
For places to go with pooch, don't forget SFi'st's own "whine and dine" posts! http://sfist.com/tags/sfistsstan
I love dogs- at least, the ones over 8 pounds. And even if I did like rat dogs in purses, dogs are dogs are dogs and they don't belong in restaurants, or even the dirtiest of coffee shops, whether they are in your $700 purse or on a leash.
I would feel uncomfortable bringing my dog in any food establishment.
Greg and icbalaam already said everything I was going to say.
I love dogs and would like to find an apartment that lets me actually have one one of these days (for a city with so many dogs you wouldn't think it would be so impossible), but I definitely think that you should keep them outside. As with anything else if someone is able to ask you nicely to take it outside... whatever "it" might be you should probably be courteous enough to apologize for bothering them and do so.
I'd be happy to eat with my dog outside, unfortunately, every smelly smoker in SF seems to think I would love to eat with eau d'inconsideration wafting over my food.
The ironing is delicious.
Amber is a gay bar? I always thought it was just a pretty mixed smoker's bar. Self-segregation being as popular as it is in SF I guess I shouldn't be surprised that I would become a minority.
To continue flogging the dead horse, I'd like to second the folks who bring up the allergy issues. And health issues.
And why is it that dogs get more love and attention than the kids I teach?
Bluecanary, you zealot, why do you doubt my sincere tales of polite smokers?
"Wy is it that dogs get more love and attention than the kids I teach?"
Hmm, let me think. Dogs don't grow up into teenagers who are embarrassed to be seen with their "dorky" parents in public. Dogs don't constantly needle you for money or to borrow the car. Dogs don't tell you your favorite skirt makes you look fat. Schools rarely call someone to tell them their dog is skipping class...
Should I go on?
JimBobJoe: maybe because in my many years of frequently coffee shops I have never seen a smoker give even the slightest concern about lighting up at a crowded sidewalk cafe?
bluecanary, I think you are spending way too much time with your dogs. It's time to stop hating people and get out of the kennel.
do people really steal dogs that are tied up outside?
wouldn't the dog freak out in that kind of situation? or did he just not love you that much