December 26, 2007
Hey You! Get Your Damn Bike Off the Sidewalk!
This worker on official City and County of San Francisco business made it a good way down the sidewalk bordering Van Ness before heading upstream on Golden Gate.
Did you know that there is a crackdown going on this year on those who cycle on sidewalks? Check it out here. Or here. At least city employees aren't parking on the sidewalk. Or driving. Some people like to drive cars on sidewalks, you know.
A note on Hypocrisy after the jump. Have a great St. Stephen's Day!
Nobody's throwing the first stone at this cyclist with his sweet steal-me, steal-me, steal-me disc brakes and thoroughly appropriate, never-say-die Continental Town and Country street tyres. He didn't appear to be hurting anybody. Staying off the sidewalks is recommended of course, but sometimes...
As we all know Hypocrisy is the act of condemning another person for an act of which the critic is guilty. (Something like crusading for the rights of copyright holders while having a checkered history yourself -- "the first time I’ve paid for music in about 7 years" kind of thing.) There are many places where it's perfectly reasonable to have a bike on a sidewalk, or what appears to be a sidewalk. Like Herb Caen Way on the Embarcadero. Or the Golden Gate Bridge. Or soon enough, the Bay Bridge.
And Masonic. Hoo boy. Maybe you and your bike are better off on the wide pedestrian-free sidewalks of Masonic than in the street where John Law says you should be. Something to ponder.
But as always, be good to yourselves and good to each other.
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The big problem that the police needs to fix is that there are still plenty of bicyclists that run red lights and stop signs. In certain areas that have a larger population of older people, those bikers that run the red also go so fast that they are just damn dangerous. I also nearly hit one recently.
On the lighter side: The photo looks like a parking official on a bike... with a big butt.
You don't understand, SFist. WE have to stay off the sidewalk. But the members of the SF government don't have to. Don't you know this is like the central philosophy of all San Francisco government?
A few weeks ago I saw a bicyclist blow right through a red light on Market and slam right into some poor soul in the crosswalk. Everybody appeared to be okay, but...holy crap. For what seems to be an entitlement complex that comes free with every bicycle sold in the city, you'd think the people riding them would at least pretend to care that there are people sharing the roads with them.
Also, yes, the jackasses need to get off the sidewalk. I don't walk in their roads, they can do me the small favor of staying out of *my* main artery.
look, dbags.
yes, there are a lot of people who ride carelessly and stupidly and unsafely. there are a whole lot of drivers who do the same.
for my part, i blow red lights and stop signs IF IT IS SAFE, i.e. i am not endangering anyone including myself. the fuckhole who i almost ran into, riding the wrong way, without lights, at night, down a bike lane on a busy one way street, i would like to sucker punch, on the other hand.
yes, you're not supposed to ride on the sidewalk. however, i would (and often do) ride WALKING SPEED on the sidewalk rather than ride the wrong way down a one way street, when i dont really feel like riding all the way around the block. sometimes thats like 5 block lengths to get somewhere that's only one block away down a one way street. the key is RIDE SLOWLY.
shit happens, you know?
as for the picture, i dont know how fast the guy was riding, but the DPT people who ride bikes generally arent the type to go zipping around. and im not sure, looking at that guy's midsection, that he'd be capable of it even if he wanted to.
my experience as far as "entitlement" goes, is that the people acting this way have simply not been shown how to safely operate a bicycle on city streets, or are beyond caring. this set includes both hipster cuntrags as well as drug addicts or the homeless. no need to tar the rest of us conscientious light-blowers with the same brush.
There is a reason why the law states no bike riding on the sidewalk:
SO PEDESTRIANS DON'T GET HIT.
That law is not optional for the convenience or whim or the bike rider.
Neither are the laws about blowing through red lights, or not signaling when making a turn.
smurf it.
when was the last time you exceeded the posted speed limit, or came within 3 feet of a bike rider?
furthermore, if my choice is either ride walking speed on the sidewalk, or endure a loop of 5 more blocks IN TRAFFIC, which do you think i'm going to pick?
again, there are idiots like the one who was screaming down the sidewalk on his mountain bike the other day and almost hit me. but just like in a car you're not supposed to get a ticket for speeding if you were just keeping up with traffic, on the sidewalk, as long as you're going with the flow, everything is cool.
You're not getting it - there's no gray area in the law about riding bicycles on sidewalks. If you want to change the law to add exceptions, go for it ... until then, riding bicycles on the sidewalks is illegal.
oh, i get it. you're more concerned about the rigid application of the law than actual safety, because you can use it as a cudgel to get all self righteous about other people's behavior. kind of like we as a society do with drug laws, the current immigration "debate", and other hot button issues.
and to that i say, ead and diaf.
Generally, bikes, and cars of course) are bann'd from sidewalks but there are exceptions, as listed.
Sometimes it's hard to tell where those exceptions are.
Bikes bother me regardless of where they are or what they are doing.
I ride a bike, and back before I lived so close to work and school, commuted on one just about every day. I'm totally down with riding a bike rather than driving.
That said, BIKES DON'T BELONG ON SIDEWALKS. Maybe on the Embarcadero down by the stadium where people drive like maniacs and it's sparsley populated, pedestrian-wise. Anywhere else is wrong.
And you want to blow a red light? Fine, as long as I'm not in the crosswalk.
But if I get hit by a bike, my reaction will be the same as my reaction would be to being mowed down by a car: SOMEONE IS GETTING A SERIOUS BEATDOWN.
The bike person would probably get it worse, because I wouldn't be as incapacitated by injury.
There's nothing I hate worse than a biker on the sidewalk because that makes ALL bikers look bad.
If you don't have the balls to ride in the street, get off your bike and walk, ya sissy.
Once again the really tough tricyclists get their training wheels all scuffed up because they are expected to follow the law. Boo hoo.
Well it seems to me that if the law says it's illegal to run through a red light or ride on sidewalks, that would pretty much make it illegal... I don't recall the law saying it's ok as long as you look both ways, can do it safely, or there's nobody looking. The fact that you don't injure someone when you break the law has nothing to do with the fact that it's illegal.
I would hardly compare the issue of bicycles on sidewalks and blowing through red lights, however, with speeding cars or poor drivers. The fact of the matter is that bicycles have particular access to pedestrians that cars don't, and many cyclists do indeed behave like they are above the laws of the road when it is my understanding that the laws of the road pretty much apply to everyone in a moving vehicle.
illegal != unsafe
that's really the whole point i was making. congratulations to everyone who missed it completely.
speeding cars and poor drivers are DIRECTLY analogous to bikers blowing red lights and stop signs. drivers believe they can get away with it, that they are safe in doing so, much like bikers who blow red lights and stop signs. and they often are safe in doing so. we should not be focusing on OMG VIOLATION OF THE LAW but instead on actual dangerous situations.
just because you saw me blow that stop sign with no cross traffic and noone in the crosswalk does not then give you the right to run me off the road in your SUV, as so often happens to me.
Keep blowing through those red lights buddy.
I'm sure there'll be an SFist piece about you after a bus splats your brains out.
yes, rather than address the substance of my post, wish bodily harm on me.
kudos. you must lead a very exciting and fulfilling life.
bluecanary:
90% of the SUV, bmw, and audi drivers i've gotten into shouting matches with, the first things out of their mouths are "i ride a bike, and...."
so please spare me.
I like how everything with a bicycle seems to be a judgment call SOLELY based on the person with the bike. Yes, we know you're invincible, invulnerable, and all knowing when you're on your bicycle.
Unfortunately for the rest of us, your attitude sets a bad example for everyone who sees you. This means the drivers of the cars, the people walking down the streets and most importantly the other people on bicycles. They see you do whatever it is you feel is safe (regardless of how safe it is for everyone else or the relevant laws you're breaking) and they assume it's okay for them to do the exact same thing whenever they feel like it. They may not even consider safety when they do it, they may just assume that bikes operate under some sort of bizzaro "follow the laws you like, ignore the ones you don't!" clause and that nothing bad will ever happen to them.
So, regardless of your own awesomeness at riding your bike around town and showing everyone whatever it is you're trying to say by disregarding some pretty decent laws that are there for everyone, not just to harsh your ride or whatever.... it's setting up a LOT more bad examples for everyone around you. Just because you don't care, doesn't mean people aren't watching.
If a car decided "I don't really want to stop at this red light, I think it's safe and I'm going to just go on through", that's a ticket. In some cases, it's probably an impound and jail time if they have a fancy to do it in actual traffic at a time when there are people around. Doesn't matter if they didn't hit anyone, or if it was totally safe, it's still illegal and all cars are pretty much expected to follow those rules.
I know it's nice to think that you're awesome and above the law when you're on a bicycle. Unfortunately, it just makes you a self-righteous douchebag when you act with such an attitude.
Start setting a good example for yourself and everyone else on a bicycle. Follow ALL the laws you're supposed to follow. Ride with respect. That's all anyone wants. I think you'd find that if every bike rider actually was respectful of everyone around them... things might be different for the bike riders. (but we all know that'll never happen, right?)
"Start setting a good example for yourself and everyone else on a bicycle. Follow ALL the laws you're supposed to follow. Ride with respect. That's all anyone wants. I think you'd find that if every bike rider actually was respectful of everyone around them... things might be different for the bike riders. (but we all know that'll never happen, right?)"
s/bike/car/g
why are bikers held to some sort of higher standard, when cars violate all sorts of laws constantly?
it's because theyre a smaller, more visible minority; because cars are so numerous, violations of traffic laws that are socially accepted are less frequently cited as violations because of lack of enforcement power and the fact that they are not actually, you know, endangering anybody. when the laws become detached from actual social practices, then they become oppressive, and i dont think i should be MORE oppressed than automobile drivers simply because i'm too poor to own a car in this smurfing city. i'm certainly not going to change my riding habits simply to impress the class of people who are threatening me with bodily harm constantly. do you change your driving habits simply to impress the drivers of tractor/trailers?
"why are bikers held to some sort of higher standard, when cars violate all sorts of laws constantly?"
Maybe it's because this kind of attitude is responsible for this ugly situation in SF where bikers and drivers can't get along?
The way out of this is not for people on one side to say, "well, they get to be jerks so I demand the right to do the same." Because people on the other side will say the exact same thing, and the result is an equilibrium where both sides resent each other and go about their business with an "I'm gonna get mine and the rest of you can ESAD" mindset, and the slightest incident or provocation sets everyone off. Nice.
Critical Mass is a great example of the above ass-backwards thinking.
does this mean that pedestrians should also stop walking across the street against the light, j-walking, and following all of their laws?
just cause if were talking about cars and bikes obeying all the laws set before them, i feel pedestrians should do the same.
i am all three, a driver a pedestrian and a bicyclist. every situation i enter into I guage differently based on the vehicle i am using and the factors at hand. i have been at dead intersections and run across them with my two feet against the light, i have also done this with my bike, i do not do this with my car.
I treat these situations like a SN2 reaction in organic chemistry: im pretty self-discerning as a pedestrian, maybe 50-33% of the time i will follow my own instincts (rather than by the book) when i am on a bike and .1-0% of the time will i do this when i am in a vehicle (the exceptions usually being u turns).
As someone who occasionally rides on the sidewalk down Lincoln (along the park) in the Inner Sunset, I make sure I ride at walking speed and walk my bike when there are pedestrians near.
As a biker, I'm always amazed at how many bike folks skip the rules of the road and race through intersections and crosswalks, ride without lights, and on. People are just asking for trouble and likely have no legal recourse if they ride dangerously. Of course we all slide through a four way stop if no one is near the intersection, but once a car shows up, I think you need to give them the right of way if they have it.
why are bikers held to some sort of higher standard, when cars violate all sorts of laws constantly?
As a pedestrian, I'd sure love to see some stats on this. I see a far greater number of spandex clad scourge endangering my safety than I do people behind the controls of a four wheeled vehicle. I certainly can't remember when I've had to jump out of the way of a car or SUV on the sidewalk. I know that at a previous residence, over the course of the six years I lived there, I saw exactly one peon on a bicycle stop at the three way stop. I saw lots and lots of bicycles whiz through the intersection... including one with a kid on the back that almost hit my car as I was trying to make a right turn (so, not only did they not have the right of way, they didn't even bother to slow down).
OTOH, one of my fondest memories of Critical Ass was trying to cross the street, in the crosswalk, on foot, with the signal in my favour. Yep. I had to weave in and out of a large number of spandex clad scourge until someone had the genius idea to scream "PEDESTRIAN. STOP. THERE'S A PEDESTRIAN."
Rage-a-moron, you can pontificate all you want about how evil and horrible automobile drivers are for not following the rules and endangering people's safety as a result. YOUR ACTIONS ENDANGER THE SAFETY OF PEDESTRIANS.
Oh, sure, drivers do stupid things. Plenty of times I've had near misses with people who pass stopped MUNI trains (hint, it's like a school bus... if the doors are open and there's no median it's illegal to pass them... look at the signs). 'Course if you do that to me, you'll end up with a fist sized dent in your trunk and a foot sized crack in your tail light. But there's a difference between plenty of times and all the time. Park your arrogant ass down at 4th & Mission. Tell me how many bicyclists you see ignoring the red lights and weaving through the throngs of pedestrians. Tell me how many you actually see stopping.
And there's the rub. The spandex clad scourge wants to be treated as superior to pedestrians on pedestrian right of ways, and treated as equals or superiors on the roads. Ever heard the phrase can't have your cake and eat it too?
"I see a far greater number of spandex clad scourge endangering my safety than I do people behind the controls of a four wheeled vehicle."
and in this statement, you validate my point that rather than talk strictly about OMG VIOLATING LAWS we should talk about SAFETY.
"I had to weave in and out of a large number of spandex clad scourge until someone had the genius idea to scream "PEDESTRIAN. STOP. THERE'S A PEDESTRIAN.""
and that person was probably me, or someone like me. i no longer ride in CM, but 99% of my vocal output on the last 4 rides i was on were "STOP FOR PEDS!" enough to be hoarse the next day.
"Oh, sure, drivers do stupid things. Plenty of times I've had near misses with people who pass stopped MUNI trains (hint, it's like a school bus... if the doors are open and there's no median it's illegal to pass them... look at the signs). 'Course if you do that to me, you'll end up with a fist sized dent in your trunk and a foot sized crack in your tail light."
and if you do that to me, i could DIE.
"Park your arrogant ass down at 4th & Mission. Tell me how many bicyclists you see ignoring the red lights and weaving through the throngs of pedestrians."
do you mean 4th & market? 4th street is on my daily commute, and howard generally has more peds than mission, but less than market. and i genuinely dont care how many people are blowing the red lights so long as they arent endangering people. and i generally dont see that. perhaps it's that i see those intersections briefly, once a day. i don't know. what i do know is that i see a lot more blowing of red lights and stop signs, safely, than i do actual endangering of peds.
"This means the drivers of the cars, the people walking down the streets and most importantly the other people on bicycles. They see you do whatever it is you feel is safe (regardless of how safe it is for everyone else or the relevant laws you're breaking) and they assume it's okay for them to do the exact same thing whenever they feel like it. They may not even consider safety when they do it, they may just assume that bikes operate under some sort of bizzaro "follow the laws you like, ignore the ones you don't!" clause and that nothing bad will ever happen to them."
i could assert the same thing about drivers, that people who drive like maniacs are setting a "bad example" for other people in cars. and i would get laughed at, because everyone is simply trying to get where they're going on time and in one piece.
it's the same with bikes, or with peds. you just want to get where you're going in one piece.
remove the plank from thine own eye and all that.
Thank you for the Masonic name check in that post, and know that we are working hard at FixMasonic to make things on Masonic sane for cyclists and everyone else!
ragahol is the problem with all the self entitled douchebags on bikes in this town. he doesn't care about anything but his god given right to ride on the sidewalk and blow through stop signs WHENEVER it suits him
you need to get kicked in the head smurfhole!
you are the problem!
ragehol is typical of most people in SF. If one wrong is right, then two wrongs will be fantastic.
I actually had a d'bag run into me while I was pushing my daughter in a stroller down the side walk in the Inner Sunset. His fixie made a nice thud when it landed in the middle if 9th Ave.
Let's all just obey the laws, the best we can, and move on.
my experience as far as "entitlement" goes, is that the people acting this way have simply not been shown how to safely operate a bicycle on city streets
My experience is that a lot of city bikers see pedestrians as "people too lazy or out of shape to ride a bike" and thus expendable and deserve whatever they get. It's all about bikes, and people who don't ride bikes are likely helping cars kill the Earth with their MUNI riding.
And yes, I ride, but I usually stop at stop signs and always at traffic lights. Even in my spandex.
i could assert the same thing about drivers, that people who drive like maniacs are setting a "bad example" for other people in cars. and i would get laughed at, because everyone is simply trying to get where they're going on time and in one piece.
This post is a great example of what Nietzsche called "ressentiment," which what happens when you define your actions in terms of what you hate. He called it "a ruling principle of the lowest sort."
Rageahol would have you believe that it's okay for bikes to do whatever they want until cars behave better. Nothing matters otherwise and in fact there is no reason for bikes to behave on the streets at all.
Rageahol: I don't own a car at all so try again.
suckafree:
if you cared to read the substance of my post, you would see that i not asserting a "god given right" but pointing out that in some cases breaking the law, such as it is, does not mean that you are being unsafe. one can be unsafe both outside and within the letter of the law. congratulations, again, for reading your anti-bike bigotry into my statements.
manys:
see above. i am pointing out that safe practices can be followed whether one is following the letter of the law or not. it's about mutual respect, which i have for peds, and attempt to have for cars, but the latter doesnt seem to have a whole lot of respect for me. if you'd like to now assert that it's because i blow through red lights or stop signs, well then we're back to square one, and i would urge you to stop drinking the haterade.
bluecanary:
i did not assert that you owned a car. i was pointing out that beginning your diatribe with "i own a bike" or "i used to be a biker" does not gain you my respect or make me think you are any less likely to be a douchebag.
i'm going to start blowing through redlights at full speed as long as i deem it safe to do so. if i run over anyone on a bike or not, i'll just claim the rageahol told me it was within my rights to do so.
you are ruining this town doofus. why don't you smurf off and smurf, please!
@rageahol
it's about mutual respect, which i have for peds, and attempt to have for cars
I'm certainly not going to change my riding habits simply to impress the class of people who are threatening me with bodily harm constantly.
How can you attempt to have respect for people you consider to be threatening you "constantly?"
manys:
it is difficult, much as it is difficult to continue reiterating my points in the face of all this venom and abuse. but i do try.
suckafree:
perhaps if i continue to act as i do, i will eventually "ruin" this city enough to make you leave. let me know when you decide to pack your bags.
it is difficult, much as it is difficult to continue reiterating my points in the face of all this venom and abuse. but i do try.
So I guess we're supposed to take your snideness and sarcasm in stride with your dishonesty. Oh well, can't really expect much from someone who names themselves after a Simpsons line.
manys:
it is difficult, much as it is difficult to continue reiterating my points in the face of all this venom and abuse. but i do try.
suckafree:
perhaps if i continue to act as i do, i will eventually "ruin" this city enough to make you leave. let me know when you decide to pack your bags.
manys: what dishonesty?
snideness and sarcasm are well-represented here, and have been since before i started commenting.
ergo, smurf off.
Suckafree,
The muses are with you today.
If I see anyone in Lycra stretch pants getting stomped in the head today, I'll assume it's you doing it to them.
You're one of my favorites isters
What I can't figure out is why people bike on the sidewalks