SFist: SFist Mail: Stop Using "the" Before Freeway Number

tedd4u

Thu, 25 Sep 2008 17:41:57 -0800

The Breeders properly refer to State Route 9 without the article in one of my favorite songs "Drivin' on 9." SR9 goes from Santa Cruz to Highway 17 in Los Gatos, winding through the mountains north of Santa Cruz and passing through Ben Lomond.

alexei

Thu, 25 Sep 2008 16:20:14 -0800

Personally, I am outraged that no one refers to the James Rolph Bridge by its proper name. "Rolph Bridge" and "Sunny Jim Bridge" are also acceptable.

gordonzola

Sun, 14 Oct 2007 17:53:35 -0800

This has been bothering me for years. Thank god someone finally said something. (Though I fear the importation of SoCal newscasters will train the next generation to say it the wrong way)

Super_V

Sun, 14 Oct 2007 08:06:21 -0800

"This is a very odd argument to me because I grew up in LA and when I moved up here 16 years ago, one of the first things I noticed was that Bay Area people use the freeway numbers. Nobody - repeat - nobody I know in LA has ever used freeway numbers. They all use the names (Golden State, Hollywood, Ventura, San Diego). I'm not sure what part of LA you people have heard "The 5" in but it sure wasn't anywhere I went in 25 years of living there." You have got be kidding me!!! EVERYONE you know must have also grown up in LA. Just about ZERO transplants, unless they have been living in LA for a long period of time use "Ventura Freeway" etc when referring to "the 101 North". Hearing someone say "the Santa Ana Freeway" instead of "the 5 South" is very rare, we must have lived in completely different areas. I spent most of my 5 years in West LA/Hollywood, and with few exceptions it was always "the 405" "the 10" etc. I live in San Francisco now, but still haven't shaken off "the" in front of my numbers. Oh, people in Phoenix also use "the 10" etc.

Super_V

Sun, 14 Oct 2007 07:51:35 -0800

Hate Stockton? How about Salinas? Talk about an arm pit!

Grrg

Sun, 07 Oct 2007 21:33:15 -0800

Yes, Sal, except that it's NOT now known as Carmel -- its offical name is Carmel-by-the-Sea (yes, with the hyphens).

polaroidgirl

Fri, 05 Oct 2007 17:46:35 -0800

Thanks, Sal! I didn't know that!!

davey k

Fri, 05 Oct 2007 15:11:32 -0800

THANK YOU! I have been saying this for years. When you move to S.F. you do NOT put "the" before the numbers, dammit! That is how SOUTHERN Californians do it! Have some respect, asswipes!

antfaber

Thu, 04 Oct 2007 12:19:12 -0800

Atleast SF can't be "West New York" A town in Jersey across the Hudson locked that up.

Sal

Thu, 04 Oct 2007 10:01:39 -0800

I guess by the time the Spanish got to Frisco [snicker] they were over the silly, long names. San Francisco was originally named Yerba Buena. It wasn't until 1847 that the city officially adopted the name of the Mission (now called Mission Dolores then called Mission San Francisco de Asís). Another favorite shortened long name is Mission San Carlos Borromeo de Carmelo, known as Carmel.

polaroidgirl

Wed, 03 Oct 2007 17:55:18 -0800

Hey Greenster (#37), the real name of LA is not "the angels." According to www.laalmanac.com: Scholars have determined from official documents of Governor Felipe de Neve, Commandant General de la Croix and Viceroy Bucareli that the settlement was simply named El Pueblo de la Reina de Los Angeles or The Town of the Queen of the Angels. I guess by the time the Spanish got to Frisco [snicker] they were over the silly, long names. Also, Damnesp (#52) is wrong and HappyChandler (#53) is correct. As is Wondernat (#22). Last but not least, I NEVER had the displeasure of hearing someone saying hella until I left LA to go to school in Santa Cruz. Much love from LA! P.S. Can't we bond together over our hate of Stockton??

HappyChandler

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 21:02:47 -0800

The 5 was the 5, and the 405 was the 405. The Hollywood and Ventura were so called because they switched numbers in North Hollywood, and the 101 switched directions (through the valley, it's an East-West freeway, regaining its southernly bent when it becomes the Hollywood). There was no such confusion with the 10, the 5, or the 405. You would never say "Take the Golden State Freeway to the Santa Ana Freeway to Disney." You would take the 5. You wouldn't take the Santa Monica to the San Bernadino, you'd take the 10. At least that's a Valley Boy's perspective. On an unrelated note, no mention of the truck shutting down the bridge today???? Even the news sites are remarkably light on info!

damnesp

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 20:12:42 -0800

This is a very odd argument to me because I grew up in LA and when I moved up here 16 years ago, one of the first things I noticed was that Bay Area people use the freeway numbers. Nobody - repeat - nobody I know in LA has ever used freeway numbers. They all use the names (Golden State, Hollywood, Ventura, San Diego). I'm not sure what part of LA you people have heard "The 5" in but it sure wasn't anywhere I went in 25 years of living there. Damin

Spencer Williams

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 19:52:28 -0800

Hella was used all the time in Fremont growing up....still is - all the time.

sfbanane

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 19:25:49 -0800

Is there a sunset road in the sunset? no idea. I never go "out there."

sfbanane

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 19:25:22 -0800

(more examples of local grammatical usage) Because of Castro, I went from Castro Valley to the Castro to go to the Castro theater. His memorial was there. In the Sunset, there is no Sunset road, upon which you could park and watch fog obscuring the sunset. If you move to the Richmond, or Richmond, you may pay less for a house than in Chinatown, or North Beach. But the Sunset? Because of schools, it'd be far more dear. If I took 280 to 80 to 680, or 80 to 880 South, I'd briefly go by 101 (and laugh at the traffic), only to be stuck in traffic on 80 South. Once, 101 was Hyde Street Pier in Fisherman's Wharf, where I live, despite being a local. Do you go to the Route 101 bar? It's on Van Ness, and is the only time I will be caught saying "the" in front of 101. That's Van Ness, not Van Nuys.

sangfroid826

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 19:11:36 -0800

Now try reading that script without the articles there, Ibsen. Strangely, one begins to see why the entire city prefers my syntax over yours. Odd, that. I wonder why? It's almost as if we had some practical reason to come up with a loose body of rules governing language.

HappyChandler

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 19:08:33 -0800

Neighborhoods get the definite article when they are derived from a "district." The Mission District, the Sunset District, and the Marina District all dropped "district." It's not the North Beach District or the Chinatown District. Hence, no articles. Exception: The Wharf, where "Fisherman's" is dropped. But, that's immaterial, because no local goes there.

yatdave

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 18:24:25 -0800

Allow me to present a little mini-play I've just composed. It's called, "Confusion," and takes place in a post-apocalyptic world in which Los Angeles sprawl has consumed the entire state of California. The heathen Angelenos have renamed all the freeways "the 101," "the 80," etc., and have stripped all San Francisco neighborhoods of their beloved - and most necessary - definite articles. The left lanes on freeways have also bizarrely been designated "passing lanes." Chaos ensues. This is dedicated to Sangfroid826. Act 1: (Chris and Karen are sitting having coffee at Peet's.) Chris: So how's the apartment hunting going? Karen: Oh, not bad. I found a sweet little place in Sunset. Chris: Between 36th and 37th? Karen: No, not "on" Sunset. "In" Sunset. Chris: How nice to have a west-facing view. Karen: Actually, it faces East. I'm in the Sunset neighborhood. Chris: What? I *never* would've guessed that's what you meant. (sigh) Life was so much simpler with our definite articles. Damn you, Angelenos! (shakes fist) Act 2: (Jeffrey's cell phone rings.) Jeffrey: Michael! I've been waiting for you! Where are you? Michael: I'm in Castro. Jeffrey: What the hell are you doing in the East Bay? Michael: That's Castro Valley. Jeffrey: You're using your cell phone in the movie theatre? Isn't that rude? Michael: No, I'm not in the theatre either, I'm - Jeffrey: (interrupting) You're in Fidel?! That's duuuuuuurty! The End I concede that "Richmond" the neighborhood could be confused with "Richmond" the city were it not for the definite article. But adding the article to "Mission" actually increases the possibility of confusion in that particular case. I'm in "Mission" (the neighborhood, without the article) I'm in "the Mission" (Dolores, or the neighborhood with the article?) I'm on a/my Mission (to convert the heathens)

KWillets

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 18:04:12 -0800

I-280 is incorrect; it's not an interstate. Most x80's etc. are not, since they're connector roads.

Brock Keeling

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 17:23:55 -0800

have you heard its derivative, "hecka"?

seeseerider

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 17:20:16 -0800

Claiming regional cred for "hella" is like boasting that you move your lips while you read.

Agent510

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 17:11:08 -0800

Well, at least none of these little regional variations annoy people!

jt

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 16:37:44 -0800

Agreed, sangfroid. Although I do hear folks refer to "the North Beach" at times - perhaps meant in opposition to "the South Beach" which has recently become a place where people supposedly live.

sangfroid826

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 16:16:00 -0800

There is a reason, yatdave. Region-wide terminology doesn't evolve on whim. People have reasons for labeling things the way they do. Check out the examples you cited: "The Richmond." Which Richmond? The city, the bridge, or the neighborhood? Oh, the neighborhood. Great. We'll leave the city without the "the". Because otherwise it would be confusing. "The Castro." Same deal. The awesome movie theater? Castro Valley? Cuban dictator? The street between Noe & Diamond? Oh, the neighborhood. I see. We'll not use the article when speaking of the almost-dead commie or anything other than the neighborhood. "The Sunset." The sun setting? The street between 36th & 37th? Oh the neighborhood. Same deal. "The Mission." The church? The street? The Morman adventure to the outside world? Oh, the neighborhood. Etc. Etc. Etc. There is no other "North Beach" or "280" or "101" to be confused with. So no "the". You see the pattern. I can go on an on until this concept is clear.

jt

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 16:06:21 -0800

I don't care if its done to make a distinction between being from here or down there. The reality is we do drop the definite article from freeway names, so as to make the number of the freeway become its actual name. (My mom's from out of state and has always, even after 40 years here, felt the need to comment on our lack of using "the" in front of our freeway names.) You wouldn't say head west on 'the' Fell and turn right on 'the' Divisadero, would you? No, just as we from the Bay say "to get to Rockridge, take 101 North to 80 to 24 East, exit at Claremont." Simple. Another endemic direction/freeway naming habit we have is to not give exit numbers as is done almost everywhere else. I was thoroughly confused the first time I drove out of state and was told to exit at a number and repeatedly asked the direction giver for the name of the exit only to again get a number. Frustration ensued but eventually I got it. Yes, I'm a little slow at times. As far as "hella" is concerned, Sac had nothing to do with it. Everyone knows its an East Bay phrase, end of story. To use any variation, such as "hecka" or "double hella" is incorrect and demonstrates a lack of appreciation for this versatile and descriptive colloquialism. We got nothing against West Bay and SoCal folks using it, just use it properly.

Brock Keeling

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 15:51:25 -0800

Actually, they're the Anaheim Angels. Or at least they still should be.

Greenster

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 15:31:58 -0800

THANK you yatdave! WHO CARES? We all know what we are talking about. If you really want to discuss something, lets talk about how ridiculous the Los Angeles Angels are. Especially when Los Angeles means "the angels" in Spanish. Now that's stupid. freeway names? Who cares?!

yatdave

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 15:21:08 -0800

Sangfroid826: North Beach doesn't loom large in the mind of the typical San Franciscan? "The Sunset" is more unique? And I assure you, when you spend two hours commuting on 280 every day, it looms pretty large in one's mind. This whole definite article thing is simply local idiom; there's neither rhyme nor reason to it, whether you're taking about freeways in LA or neighborhoods in SF. Kay: What you say may be true for occasional freeway drivers. I don't know. But for anyone who commutes down the peninsula, there's a tremendous difference between 280 and 101, so making the distinction becomes important.

sangfroid826

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 14:56:03 -0800

Sigh. "The" is in front of "the Castro" because "the Castro" looms large in the mind of the typical San Franciscan. Interstate 280 does not. We put "the" in front of persons, places or things that are unique. "The Queen", "The Nile". Freeways with numbers are by their nature already unique. No one says "The North Beach". Capeche?

Kay

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 14:47:37 -0800

I went to high school and college in SF and no one I knew said "hella" unless they were from LA or Sac'to. So, MythBusted. Also having grown up here, we refer to every freeway as "the freeway", as in, "Nah, I'm going to take the freeway", and people just assume which freeway you're talking about because it's such a small area and there just aren't that many of them. As in the case of 280 vs. 101: "The freeway was backed up, so I got off and took the other freeway." Anyone else experience this?

Brock Keeling

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 14:41:29 -0800

You nailed it, yatdave. A city famous for eating its own, SF has a serious Jan Brady complex when it comes to So Cal.

yatdave

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 14:36:51 -0800

My original (less diplomatic) comment posted as guest appears to have gone into the void, so let's try again... Look, this whole SF-LA "rivalry" is just absurd. I use that term in quotes because it's very much one-sided. Angelenos love San Francisco. San Franciscans despise LA. It's very much a tale of unrequited hate that manifests itself in San Franciscans' apparent need to define themselves as "not LA." Frankly, it reeks of inferiority complex. And that's a shame, because it's so unnecessary. Anyone who visits SF knows what a great city it is and how much it has to offer, so why is there this incessant need to belittle LA - and for that matter, any other city that suffers from simply not being San Francisco? As for the appropriate use of definite articles, we're supposed to drop the article before freeway names because it's 'too LA,' but keep them before neighborhood names despite the grammatical absurdity because that's 'very SF?' "The Castro?" "The Mission?" "The Richmond?" "The Sunset?"

sangfroid826

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 14:33:29 -0800

I think you're missing the point. The function of the definite article ("the") before the noun is a byproduct of the enormous mental space freeways occupy within the mind of the average Los Angeleno. This is perfectly natural. It's part of their local idiom. It's not part of ours because we don't spend so much of our lives on them. (Shut up, Contra Costa.) We don't say "Take I-80 easy to Oakland." We say, "Take the Bay Bridge." It's not about proper syntax. It never has been. The grammarians can go fuck themselves. Up here, our freeways are not personalities in and of themselves, and that's a good thing.

Brock Keeling

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 14:25:20 -0800

Audra McDonald is from Fresno, thus it is most spectacular. Also, was can find out if it's Nor- or So- the most reliable way: any Fresno-born readers want to chime in with their "the" usage?

redseca2

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 14:20:51 -0800

What we do like to do is refer to San Francisco as "The City". My relatives, living as far away as "the" gold country, have been doing so for much more than 50 years. Now what I really hate is hearing someone call highway 1, anywhere from Big Sur to Arcata as "the pacific coast highway" or PCH.

HappyChandler

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 14:18:22 -0800

They can keep Fresno. And is there any way to move that line so we don't get Stockton either????

Ginger

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 14:14:33 -0800

Ricardo, that ad is total bollocks-- the dividing line is ridiculous. Southern California gets Bakersfield, Northern California gets Fresno. That's the way it always has been and always will be.

J

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 14:14:17 -0800

In Canada they use the "the" in front of the 401, which I've been on outside of toronto somewhere. So Fuck, I guess The City is being invaded by The North, The South and The Cannucks. Oh, and the "I" refers to the Interstate Highway (Federally built and maintained as part of the Eisenhower system). 101 is a United States Highway (State or locally built & maintained), not an Interstate Highway, like I-80. If your really old-school, then you'd call the roads by their names as Bryan did in his email. From wikipedia... "U.S. Route 101 may be called the "Oregon Coast Highway" in Oregon, and the "Pacific Highway" in parts of Washington and California. It is also called "The 101" or "The Ventura Freeway" by residents of Southern California or simply "101" by residents of Northern California and Oregon. From north of San Francisco and continuing to the Oregon Border it is also referred to as the "Redwood Highway"

RicardoSF

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 14:04:44 -0800

Does not appear that I can embed a photo in my Comment: So ...the Absolut ad is ==> HERE

RicardoSF

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 14:03:09 -0800

RicardoSF

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 14:01:43 -0800

This Absolut ad on the back cover of last month's 40th anniversary issue of The Advocate said it well. (you'll probably have to delete it, Brock. Or are they an SFist sponsor? (they so should be).. And please add my 2¢ to the conundrum and please don't call it "cali".

wondernat

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 13:53:58 -0800

That is just bullshit and bad grammar. You need to add the article before "101" because it's not a proper name. It's "THE 101 FREEWAY." You don't want to waste breath on all three words above? Fine. Then don't forget the article so that we know wtf you're talking about. You don't say "I'm going to get on freeway" - you will get on THE freeway." Inanimate objects like freeways don't get to be their own proper noun. THE 101. THE 5. THE 405. THE 285. THE 17. Dumbasses!

kasey

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 13:40:05 -0800

You might as well add to that list of annoyances people who refer to "the BART," instead of just "BART", or "the Muni" instead of just "Muni". And not to pile on, Brock, about your citation of songs featuring Southern California freeways, but Death Cab is from Washington, Lisa Marr is from Canada, and I don't know about Switchfoot, but their name alone screams Southern California, so I don't think those are the best examples!

pancakebreakfast

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 13:39:23 -0800

Just to be annoyingly pedantic, the line about "the 405" in the Death Cab song refers to the 405 bypass in Washington state, not SoCal. In WA, at least in the Seattle area, they put the "the" in front of freeway numbers as well.

Agent510

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 13:28:17 -0800

Hey NorCal and SoCal...to those of us from "The Rest Of The Country" (insert banjo theme from "Deliverance" here), you both sound funny! For us, "I" before the highway number is the preferred usage.

sfbanane

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 13:25:54 -0800

I was just in Boston where people constantly referred to our lovely city as "San Fran." When did this start? Why do they say it? I'd prefer Frisco, believe it or not. Yes, "the" before a highway tells the listener that while your heart is in SF, your lexicon and grammar are from LA. The "the" is not Bay Area, and I'm a native, and my cousins are from Southern California- San Diego, LA, etc. So I've been hearing this difference a lot. I'd actually say, though, that it only sounds awkward when you're referring to southern California highways without the "the," but in Northern California, you refer to those freeways without an article. So it depends where the highway/freeway is, to refer to it appropriately. Examples: "Yeah, 101 was backed up, so I took 280 to San Jose." "I took the 405 going to work the other day, even though I heard there was a sniper."

Brock Keeling

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 13:24:57 -0800

Oh! Another thing: It not "the OC" -- which started after McG got his Michigan-born paws on the place and ruined it -- it's actually just "OC". Also, OC and SF have much more in common that both of them care to admit. The self-righteousness and intolerance on both end runs very deep.

the_absentee

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 13:03:08 -0800

Leave 'the' in The OC Bubble.

Slappydafrog

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 12:58:21 -0800

Bryan Mion you are my hero. As for you, Brock, I hope your tongue was firmly in cheek quoting songs about Southern California freeways in your defense! ;)

trogdor

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 12:50:19 -0800

What really grates on me is when people call San Francisco things like "frisco" or "san fran" BTW, I remember "hella" was quite the word to use growing up here in San Francisco.

KatyG

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 12:47:35 -0800

Brock, I am not jumping on some bandwagon(!) Let me put it to you this way: how happy do you think I, a fat feminist in book publishing, was when I lived in LA for a year?

A_Native_Son

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 12:44:04 -0800

"Jesus. Jumping on the bandwagon by referring (incorrectly) to half of our state as a "hated opposite" does more damage to any sort of credibility than a three-letter word in front to a freeway number. " What? I really don't understand this statement. What bandwagon? The "I hate l.a." thing? The "SF is better than l.a." thing? These aren't bandwagons, dude! These are SF traditions! What the heck? And what's incorrect? That socal is the hated opposite of NorCal? Huh? I really hope I missed the sarcasm. Anyway, I also think that we should all run around one night with chainsaws and take down any and all palm trees in the City. My eyes bleed whenever I see them.

Brock Keeling

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 12:42:58 -0800

HappyChandler asks "...at what point does it become The 101?" I'm going to say 10-20 minutes after the grape vine, right at the moment when you start to regret renting a Kia instead of that convertible or...worse. (Hint: it starts with a "S" and ends with a "V")

HappyChandler

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 12:37:10 -0800

Greenster: First of all, 101 ain't an interstate. Whichever part of California you're from, you should know that! Unless....heaven forbid, you're not from the Inland Empire? Anyways, I kid because I'm a San Fernando Valley transplant myself, and like you (I'm sure) came up and lived in the Cal dorms. Aside from hating the social experiment I was forced to live, I quickly pinned the overuse of "hella" as a sign of a Sacramentan (Sacramentite?). That was not a habit I was about to embrace. I have, while driving down I-5 tried to figure out at what point it went from being I-5 to The 5. Same with 101, at what point does it become The 101?

Elizabeth

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 12:35:53 -0800

Oh, and don't forget- Google Launches 'The Google' For Older Adults

Brock Keeling

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 12:35:18 -0800

Jesus. Jumping on the bandwagon by referring (incorrectly) to half of our state as a "hated opposite" does more damage to any sort of credibility than a three-letter word in front to a freeway number.

iris

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 12:33:37 -0800

I'll agree with stopping using the definite article before highways. Nice to know I'm not the only one who gets a little annoyed by it. But at least y'all aren't saying "Frisco" or the 415.

Elizabeth

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 12:33:06 -0800

What? 805 & 405are both SoCal interstates. Go ahead and get your kicks and The Route 66.

OrangeDrink

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 12:26:26 -0800

Anarthrous versions rock.

Greenster

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 12:24:33 -0800

OUCH! Ignorance? Man this guy really made me feel like a huge loser for being from SoCal. Yeah, there is a reason I moved up here. And it's NOT because WE say "the" before the freeway name. As in, "THE freeway Interstate 101". In college, I wholeheartedly embraced "hella" as I was embracing other cultures, and as a way to live as one in my freshman, 1/3 norcal, 1/3 socal dorm. I still use it to this day. As well as the definite article. And I sure hope this guy doesn't speak spanish - the use it more than SoCal people do! And I really like how SoCal is ignorant, but he will eat In-N-Out and buy from Trader Joe's. He's not even an equal opportunity douche, he just picks and chooses what HE likes. Final Point: SF is a unique city. The Bay Area attracts many transplants. Don't ignore it, embrace it! And if you don't like it, hop on the 101, the 80, the 880, the 280, the 380, or any other freeway, and don't get hyphy.

A_Native_Son

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 12:21:44 -0800

Mr. Bryan Mion, I salute you. I know there are lots, tons, bunches of transplants here in the City, and we're better off for it, I think. But once the transplants arrive, I too have those moments where I hear something that sounds like proverbial fingernails on a blackboard. Since when is SFO shorthand for San Francisco? Dudes, that's the airport, homies. I hate SOMA. I'll never say NOPA. And whyohwhy are there soooo many dodger fans at Giants games? Whyohwhy aren't said dodger fans being spit on? But yes, the #1 indicator of a transplant is the "the" before the freeway number. Who does that??? It's just so effing weird. And Brock, those artists singing those songs using the article, well, you do know where those freeways are located, yes? Exactly.

KatyG

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 12:21:28 -0800

Please add me to the number of those readers who would enjoin your editorial staff against using the definite article before freeway numbers. Our peculiar regionalisms are what set us apart from the teeming masses. Besides, doesn't it blow this SF Bay Area-specific blog's credibility when you folks use a regionalism used only in our hated opposite number down south?

Ciaran

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 12:20:42 -0800

Didn't hipsters declare the definite article dead about four years ago? At least for use in band names...