September 14, 2007
San Francisco Taxicabs vs. Limos
Cabbies are upset. Again. What's else is new? But:
This time the crankypants are concerned about limousines and towncars that illegally -- illegally? oh please -- pick up passengers at hotels, bars, clubs, or wherever to grab extra cash. Makes sense on the higher-end autos part. But as cabbies scrounge for customers -- or so we've often heard them complain -- they hate seeing other (and fancier) modes of transportation swipe passengers. According to Bay City News:
"Limo drivers have been stealing from us and gouging the public for years, but the problem has now reached epidemic proportions,'' Thomas George-Williams, chair of United Taxicab Workers, said in a prepared statement. "The city needs to get serious about enforcing the law because these thieves are costing taxi drivers and the public millions of dollars a year.''
Fine. But what with cab company blacklists, tempter tantrums over whispers of additional cars, lack of change for a $20 (that happens too many times for coincidence!), underwhelming availability of taxis at peak hours, and overwhelming fares, we would hate to see some inane punishment handed to limo/towncar drivers. (In fact, how would they enforce such a thing?) If SF had more taxis, and at a better price, United Taxicab Workers could start concerning themselves about the market that's just waiting out there for cabbies. They just need to take the time to build it.
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I am usually really pro-taxi, but I have been having bad experiences lately.
Had a driver reset the meter after dropping off our first passenger, on a two-stop trip.
I had clearly stated when we got in what the two stops were, and he confirmed them to me. Then he pretended to reset the meter accidentally, when I explained at the first stop that we had one more place to go. He added up the two fares at that point and pretended not to understand my reasoning when I suggested $3.10 (or whatever the starting fare is) should be deducted.
He then got REALLY angry at the notion, thinking I was trying to cheat him. When I explained my rationale again, he started saying it was up to the cabbie whether or not to reset the meter when making two stops. "NO Law, NO Law" he kept saying. As if I was trying to illegally swindle him out of a fortune. He was escalating the situation, when all I was suggesting is that the 100 or so times I've taken the same route, no cab has ever tried to reset the meter (the two locations are a mere 10 blocks from each other).
Anyway, he of course ALSO played the "I don't have change" game at that point, which made me pissed and I demanded he find change, so he pulled out at maybe 50 Mph swearing under his breath that we will go find change. I was basically scared after flying down 3 blocks and said, "fine keep the change just let me out"
One of those times in life where it isn’t the 3 bucks I was trying to save, but the principle.
Crazy experience... been waiting to get that off my chest for weeks. Not really on topic, but close enough!
The end.
Yeah right, as if more competition is costing the public.
I always see a lot of those towncars and limos parked nearby AT&T Park after the ballgames. They don't talk to you unless if you talk to them.
The most ironic thing that happened to me in regards to illegal towncars and limos picking up people on the spot is when I was getting into my car about five blocks away from the ballpark. A lady rolled down the window of the towncar and asked me "do you know where Nob Hill is?" I yelled back to her that your driver should know, and also said "did you know that hiring that driver is illegal?"
I also knew that cabbies are required to take a test about SF city streets, well I guess our limo suckers just know these two things... "need a ride?" and "I charge twice as much as any actual city cab!"
Hark!
What's that sound?
Do you know what it is, United Taxicab Workers?
It's the world's smallest violin and it's singing out your sorrows.
You can always stiff the towncar driver who illegally picks you up as they have no legal recourse. Also remember Cabbies have to either own a medallion or rent one, there is no such requirement for a towncar driver.
I see towncar/limo drivers pick people up all the time at the collisium bart stop. "$5 for a ride!"
As for change, cabbies take plastic, say how much tip you want to leave, sign the slip, and you're off!
I am guilty of taking a towncar twice in the last few months but only as a last resort, when I could not get a cab for a long time.
If they fill in a need during peek hours so be it. Most folks don't want to pay the extra and would happily take a cab if around. I wonder how bad the problem really is. What is the fine for a town car for illegally picking you up? I am sure if one beat a cab to a fare that the cab would report them.
I once got a cab in the city that turned out to be a cab from Berkeley. The driver said there was such a high demand for cabs in the city because there weren't enough of them that he'd go into SF on the weekends to earn more money than he could if he drove a cab in Berkeley.
He also said that he'd been narced on by a bunch of SF cab drivers who'd report him to their bosses and try to get him in trouble. So, he spent the entire ride driving around like he was being chased, weaving in and out of traffic to avoid being spotted. At one point, he stopped at a light when another cab pulled up behind him. As soon as the light turned, he hit the pedal and bolted out of there like it was a drag race.
Needless to say, we gave him a big tip.
When cabbies start actually serving the Sunset, maybe I'll care what they have to say.
exactly. if they started serving the sunset or O.R., they might see business grow. slowly, yes, but it'll grow.
also, it shouldn't cost $25-30 to get from sea cliff to downtown. pft.
I've noticed a few cabbies that are just flat out nut cases.
Example: On Geary between 18th and 19th (where the Starbucks and Walgreens are) going east. I was in the right lane, about 3 cars behind the lead car waiting at the red.
The cab behind me, flies by the right of me. Since the right lane is wide enough to barely fit two cars (they do that because of the double parking problem), when he passed by, I yelled "you f---in cheater!" Then he rolled down the window to give me the one fingered salute.
"i accept pot or t for fare, too" was one of my favorite personal moments in sf cabbery.
How about less taxis? Or, how about less taxis zooming up and down 15th St between Market and Castro at 4.30 AM? Sitting on my front porch late last night, I wished I had a radar gun to catch the cabbies cruising through at 60 MPH. It's a residential street! What the hell, dudes!
PACBELL to MILL VALLEY TAXI (nut job driver) $65.00
PACBELL to MILL VALLEY Towncar driver with suit and Bottle water $50.00
Hummmm
I've been taking a lot of cabs lately. School runs into the evenings and the bus ride home is inconsistent at best, non-existent at worse, and I'm tired. I just want to go home. That's not too much to ask usually. My desire to not own personal transportation has been really wearing me down. I've been navigating and dealing with MUNI since early 1992, and at this point I'm more victim than victor. I don't mean to sound as if I suffer alone, this city has been damn near brought to it's knees by the short-sighted fuck-ups of our brilliant public transportation decision makers as of late. I honestly thought it couldn't get worse than it was 5 years ago, but it has, and well, it's driven me to spend about $45 or $50 a week on cab rides just so I can get my tired ass to bed by 10pm so I can wake up and do it again by 5:45 or 6am the next morning. It just never seems to let up.
Most nights I just want to give my destination and sink back into the filthy seat, iPod blaring, and stare blankly at the city going by. Most nights Mr. Cab Driver makes this impossible. As much as I'd like to represent myself as a complete bastard of an uncaring man, a conversational black-hole of a human being, I'm just not. Inevitably at the height of my exhaustion, when after 10 minutes of wildly swinging my arms around trying to get a cab to stop, lit up sometimes, sometimes not (can we get some fucking consistency here people? what exactly does that damn light on the roof mean?), I'll whip the door open, collapse inside and bark "Page & Masonic please!" to the driver. He (no women lately, but they're out there, I see them) will nod or grunt or sneeze, look at me in his mirror and mash the pedal to the floor. A block later it'll start, the utter madness of Mr. Cab Driver can never just stay shut in, not for me, maybe for you and if so I hate you. You get all my silence and you owe me, you owe me big time. See I'm the guy that gets pulled into political discourse, I'm the guy that gets the family history, I'm the guy who hears about rehab, HIV, cancer and impacted molars. I'm the guy who for some reason has been assigned the task of bonding with every freak, peacenik, meathead, metal head and shitheel that have been deemed too undesirable to do anything other than drive the rest of us around. Now don't get me wrong, I know there are a dozen if not five or six, normal, hardworking regular Joe's out there, making ends meet behind the checkered façade. Those are the cat's who's flag fall should be silent music to my ears. Sadly, I don't get those folks, I get the nutters like the one from last night.
"Where too pal?" He gurgles in an I just swallowed a half gallon of chocolate pudding and it keeps backing up on me sort of way...
"Page & Masonic please…" I close my eyes and settle in, trying to ignore the spring poking my ass and the smell poking my nose…
"Cough, hack, snort….you read the news today?"
"Sigh, no."
"Ahhhhh…hey, look at the dog! What the fuck kinda dog that be? Looks like one of dem pit bulls…"
"Indeed it does, pretty big one too…"
"What you have to understand is the altitude…"
"Excuse me?"
"The altitude, ya see, they outlawed them pits up there in Denver a ways back."
"Oh really, huh…"
I'm really trying to end this, believe me, my responses are listless and I'm trying to show as little interest as possible.
"Yeah, see the thing is, it's high up there in Denver, some say as high as a mile! You know, aint no air a mile up, and the heat in the summer can be brutal. So you gotta figure, the lack of oxygen, the heat causing dehydration which in turn'll make ya hungry as hell, then you find yourself chained up. To a tree, in a yard or a basement, and hell, who the fuck wouldn't go crazy? You tell me, cuz I'm saying I'm about to bite a motherfucker myself, for real, those dogs just go crazy…."
"Huh. Yeah, I suppose you have a point."
I try to end it, I just want to go to sleep, why is this happening again? Why is this happening to me again? Why God, WHY!?!
"So what's that they call it, in the news, that stuff from China, wheat-something, wheat-glue? Wheat-something, from China, them Chinamen, poisoning our dogs…wheat. Wheat-something, wheat glue? What do they call it…from China…you know what I'm talking…"
"Do you mean wheat gluten? Are you talking about the poisoned pet food….?"
"Yeah! BINGO! That's it? See, you read the news…"
"Sigh…"
Christ…
"So them Chinamen, I tell ya, them Chinamen, ya can't trust them. The whole damn country. I'm telling ya, they're starting with our dogs, but they got designs on us. You and me pal, you and me and our kids and everyone else and I hate it, I hate them and I hate their food. Damn shit is poison. Lacing my Kung-Pow with wheat glue…them Chinamen gonna take over the earth…lacing toys with lead and my food with wheat glue."
At long last, someone who shares my hatred of Chinese food. Our reasons are different, I have nothing against anything other than the over use of fat laden sauces poured over bok-choy but still….Whoa. Hold up a minute. What the hell…?
"The only thing I hate more than them Chinamen is them damn Indians. Not what they call Native Injuns, it's them INDIA Indians…them and their curry. That shit'll put a fire in your gut that just wont quit, made me shit myself once, and boy, I'll tell ya, never agai…"
"Whoa, hey, do you think you can pull over right here? I just remembered I need to take care of something…"
"Sure pal, no prob, right here's good? Good."
He pulls over, I pay, tip him too well as I always do, and I walk the next 5 blocks home. In peace, in silence, in awe. One day I'm going to have to figure out how to turn my non-committal disinterest into something that is not so fucking encouraging. If only MUNI ran like it was supposed to. Maybe that town car over there can get me home...
The solution is easy - get rid of the government granted monopoly vis a vis the taxi medallion system, which just leads to far too few cabs and too high fares and the only ones making a killing are the taxi companies.
Make it just like any other business license - fairly pro forma, show up at city hall, file some forms, pay a modest fee and get your license to be a cabbie. It'll eliminate a lot of middlemen, increase # of cabs, drive down prices and probably put more money directly into the pockets of cabbies themselves.
As long as the govt. grants a monopoly to a lucky few, the only ones benefitting will be the monopolists.
crow_soup: That's just the type of people you are going to get driving cabs. These guys drive around all day and their only source of entertainment is talking to their passengers. If you ever hitchhiked, it is similar, the type of people to pick up strangers want someone to chat with.
Entertaining story nonetheless!
Old story folks. Get used to it. Cabs are either being driven by the medallion owner or those who rent it. Stick with DeSoto and you get a decent experience. They rule in my book. If you want to take the limo/towncar "gypsy" cab, go for it but they are doing it illegally and you get what you pay for. Whatevs.
I took DeSoto for many years and yes, we hoofed it in at 4:40 am most mornings before the market opened. They are professionals. I knew many of the dispatchers & drivers by name. Driving isn't easy.
"The solution is easy - get rid of the government granted monopoly vis a vis the taxi medallion system, which just leads to far too few cabs and too high fares and the only ones making a killing are the taxi companies."
Hmmm no, it's because San Francisco doesn't know how to run the system. The medallion system is very much alive and well in New York, with no shortage of cabs here....
Yeah, another sad tale of cabbie woe, boo hoo..
I don't know why the big hotels don't just take over the business, since they're the only ones really being served by taxis in this town.
crow_soup,
I hear your pain, but I actually like the kind of driver you described- especially when they have Brooklyn accents and curse and scratch their balls a lot.
If talking cab drivers annoy you so much, when you get in use some ASL [or an imitation thereof] and point your destination out on a map.
However remember to remove your ipod plugs and turn your cell phone off.
"I hear your pain, but I actually like the kind of driver you described- especially when they have Brooklyn accents and curse and scratch their balls a lot."
I hate to break it to you but there aren't many cabbies in NY with Brooklyn accents, they are all Turkish, Indian, Pakistani, Persian, Caribbean accents these days.
Don't forget Brazilian guys, Indians speaking Gujariti and Punjabi, and English speaking Nigerians whom I still need subtitles for.
There are a lot of "know it alls" on here. Nowhere are actual facts and statistics acknowledged. When you ride in a random black sedan you are literally getting into someone's car. Do any of you know who that person is or if they even have a driver's license? Do you ever notice that many of these black sedans or more than 10 years old and they don't have license plates on them? How do you report a hit and run driver or a sexual assault when there is no way to identify the driver or vehicle?
SF's cab drivers a varied group. They all however have passed an FBI background check, their driving records are monitored and the public has a method of recourse should there be a problem. Every cab has a unique medallion number, an unique color scheme and a license plate. A consumer can call 311 with the cab's number to compliment the driver or complain about an incident. They also can dial 311 if they lose something in a taxi.
In an unmarked black sedan there is no one to call. The driver is unidentified and you have no set fare.
There is a reason that taxis are heavily regulated, it is because there were problems and the laws were made to resolve them. The number of cabs in the City is determined by annual Public Convienience and Necessity results. Many factors are used to determine the final total. When black cars steal a segment of the taxicab's domain there ends up being too many cabs during part of the day. The result is an overall lower demand for cabs. Cabs need business 24 hrs. a day not just at bar rush.
The bottom line is, if you want more cabs then you don't want the black cars stealing the cream of the business.
Guest 24- oh stop. Most of the black cars not only have license plates, but they also have TCP numbers on the bumper. I guess SF cabbies keep people from filing sexual assault reports by killing them and dumping the bodies at construction sites.
As if on cue, Friday night a black towncar tried to get my business (first time this has ever happened).
I told him, "I can't, sorry" ... "It's against the law."
He looked at me like I was retarded or insane and said "whatever". I did feel somewhat retarded. Like a NARC. lol
But one thing I DID consider when I got in a legit cab (which was smelly), was exactly what guest 24 mentioned. If shit hits the fan, and you are doing something illegal or unlicensed, you will probably just be SOL.
Methinks guest 24 is a medallion holder eager to protect his monopoly.
There is no need to link the SAFETY and CONSUMER PROTECTION regulation system of taxicabs with a system of fixed number of licenses. In most parts of the country, we managed to let an unlimited number of people own and operate various businesses without fixing the number of those businesses and somehow we all do just fine.
As for the "forumla" used to decided how many medallions there are in SF - what a fucking joke. How retarded do you think we are? Measure K pretty much fixed the # of medallions at 1300 in 1975. Today there are about 1380 medallions in SF. What, in the last quarter century, we only needed 80 more cabs? What. A. Joke.
Curiously, by way of comparison, Boston - a city with a similar monopoly system - has 1560 medallions, serving a popultion with 150,000 less residents than SF. 150,000 less people, but 200 more taxicabs. Funny, when I lived there, it was a heck of a lot easier to find a cab - regardless of time of day.
So much for the all powerful ability of SF government to tell the market what it needs.
#27, Prop K has nothing to do with the number of medallions issued, only to whom they are issued. In 1975 there were less than 800 medallions in the city. over 300 medallions have been added since 1998. 50 more medalions are hitting the road any time now.
#25, most town cars have plates and a TCP number? Funny, KRON 4 News showed town cars soliciting fares at SFO, none of them had plates nor proper SFO permits. They prey on tourists.
Yeah, a cab driver did dump a body, the important part is they knew who the driver was by the cab number. That as far as I know has happened once in all the years of San Francisco history. Cabs also now have cameras in them which record all the activity occurring in the taxi.
As for the overall ability to find/catch a taxi in the City, comparisons to NYC or Boston or any other city are moot. This is California, it is the land of the automobile. Most people own at least one car and drive it whenever they can. Cabs are not in demand in the Sunset or the Richmond, if there were enough business to sustain a fleet in the outer areas there would be cabs working there.
People can't afford to take cabs every day from downtown to the Sunset. Cab drivers can't make a living running $5 fares up and down the avenues.
There is a lot more to this than just putting a car on the road and hoping for the best. Insurance for a taxi begins at over $5,000.00 annually. The Taxicab Commission is now moving the industry toward a hybrid fleet.
The cab industry in San Francisco is one of the world's most eclectic and the drivers are among the most interesting people. There seems to be a lot of anectodotal information going on here. Even a little bit of xenophobia. I urge you to step back out of your own perspectives and examine the full picture.
Quite honestly, I'm all for the complete banning of taxis and limos to force people in to public transportation so that the system would get built up better. Or maybe people could, god forbid, walk once in awhile.
#28
Um, right. No demand. If it was easier to get a cab in the avenues, I would be out there more frequently. As it is, I keep on hand the phone #'s for a couple of gypsy cab services so I can get around if I want to go out there. Unless of course, I'm not going to be drinking. Then I'll drive - not because I want to, but because there are no cabs to be had.
#30, you would. How many times a day would you be riding a cab from the Sunset? Once, twice or more? Where would you be going? Would you be going to and from downtown, the Mission or where? Those fares are $15 - $20 each way. If you are telling me that you would spend over $150 a week to commute within the City when you already have a car and the option of the N or T trains then you are most certainly a wealthy person and are the exception to the rule. I promise you that the single family residences in the Sunset are filled with families that are on strict budgets, they are not going to be owning cars unless they are driving them. There is almost no pedestrian traffic in the Sunset and there are relatively few fares going to the Sunset. If there were more people taking cabs to the Sunset then empty cabs would be there, right? Are you suggesting that when a driver drops his fare in the Sunset he is refusing to bring a ride back into the City? I don't think so, I really don't.
The Sunset is very suburban especially once west of 19th Ave and south of Judah. Almost every home has a garage. Cabs are not a part of the Sunset lifestyle, you are the exception to the rule.
Incidentally Supervisor Ed Jew of the Sunset is the manager of Howard Mock Jew, Inc., the company that owns a medallion operated by Bay Cab. Maybe you should talk to Ed about your problem. You would think he'd be sympathetic wouldn't you?
I'm not guest #30, but I do regularly pay $20 cab fare downtown. When it's important to be on time, you just can't risk the very common Muni meltdown.
In the past, it was common for me to call a cab on nights when the N-Judah was running 30+ minutes late, so that I could make my dinner reservation or get to the play on time. When time is meaningful, it's easier to just call a cab.
The rub is on Saturday's, not only can't you rely on Muni, you can't get a cab to show up in the Sunset. There is a feeling of being trapped in your own neighborhood that's hard to explain until you've experienced it.
Oh come on - I use cabs all the time, esp. on Friday and Saturday nights, usually from the Casto or edge of the Mission, and it's *hell* out there between 10 and 11PM and at 2AM. I've had to walk all the way from Guerrero and Duboce to Clay and Larkin (up Larkin) on a Friday night at 10PM because I couldn't get a cab. I've had to walk home on more occasions than I like to count because I couldn't get a cab *down Market Street.* These are major thoroughfares and there's no reason why I shouldn't be able to pick up a cab. If a town car comes by and offers mea ride, sure, I'll take it (and have done so), because I have someplace I want to be. The medallion system may be beneficial to the medallion owners, but it sure doesn't put more cabs on the streets at peak times, and if I can get a ride in a town car, I'll take it. I'd gladly give that money to a cabbie, if I could find one, but I'm much more interested in getting where I want to go than helping support a medallion system that gets me nowhere.
I can't get a cab at bar rush! Whaaaaaahhhhh! So frickin' what? Cab drivers should have to absorb another how many cabs to compete against during the other 167 hours of the week so you can get your drunk ass home? Get out of here with that. No one cares and they never will. When you are online complaining that it is hard to get home when you're drunk or it's difficult to get a cab to go out on Saturday night then your life has become far too shallow. Have you thought that maybe no one wants to pick you up? Maybe the cab drivers are passing you up because you are drunk? Contrary to popular belief cab drivers not only are allowed by law to refuse obviously drunk and foul smelling passengers. That is a big pool of people at 2:am.
I never have a problem when I go out because I think ahaead. A) travel off peak. Arrive at your destination early, walk around or have cocktails somewhere. B) Leave the bar at 1:20am instead of 2:am with everyone else. Simple.
You also have to use your urban sensabilities, Guerrerro and Duboce for example is a horrible corner. Why would an empty cab ai, for this intersection. You should walk over to Valencia and Duboce or Market and Duboce then plant yourself there. Walking and trying to hail a cab at once is the worst way to catch a cab. Every time you begin to walk an empty cab will pass you from behind. Also if you stay put an cab will possibly drop off a fare on or near your corner.
If it is 2:am every other person wants a cab too. You have to wait, that's all. Where do you need to be anyway? You have a meeting or flight to get too? You are drunk. Get some food, chill out and wait.