August 15, 2007
Ask Not For Whom Doyle Drive Tolls
As anyone trying to get onto the Golden Gate Bridge knows, the onramp of Doyle Drive is in terrible shape -- it's too narrow, there's no shoulder, lanes merge and swerve around with no rhyme or reason, and there's those weird white poles in the middle of the street to visually break up the two lanes of traffic but are just begging to be hit. Apparently it's really unsafe in an earthquake too. That's just great.
The city's been trying to get the money to fix the road for ages, and have finally gotten the feds to agree -- but the feds will only kick in money if we agree to charge a toll to use the road. And the toll would be on top of the $5 toll to actually cross the Golden Gate Bridge itself. The grant requires that the toll use a congestion-pricing model, so the amount would fluctuate based on traffic patterns, with a max probably of $2. We also can't tell if that would be $2 for a round-trip or if you'd have to pay the toll going both ways.
All the money from the toll would go towards fixing the road, which seemed to leaven the news with some of the drivers interviewed by the Chron, but still -- $7 (or $9, if you have to pay both ways) just to get to Marin? Yikes. (Also, in a side note, we didn't really understand the objection one guy had, which was that he thought the city should pay for the repairs and not the taxpayers. Isn't the city's money from taxpayers too?)
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Good idea. Users pay.
I think that for the daily users of the bridge, they'll get ticked that they have to dish out more money.
Of course, if you hate the idea, just wait until people find a creative way to get on the bridge without taking Doyle.
Doing the math of a weekday driver that drives on Doyle:
52 weeks in a year X 5 weekdays = 260 driving days
260 driving days X $4 (roundtrip on Doyle) = $1,040.
Add $4 fastrak toll with the Doyle toll = $2,080 a year (that's paying double).
So much for the infrastructure bonds. ::shakes head::
This is something that our tax dollars should already be paying for -- safe roads! And people already pay a toll for the right to access this stretch of road! Those are two pots of money that taxpayers should reasonably expect to be used for road safety. But GG Bridge tolls are pissed away on buses for residents of Marin, while SF tax funds are pissed away on services for the homeless (who, in turn, piss on our streets). Who's responsible for paying? Whoever built the road! They should have been planning for its upkeep all along, and are responsible for it now.
Maybe Don Fisher can rebuild it and hang his art collection on the guardrails.
Once tolls go up, they never go down again.
I guess $10 tolls on the G.G. Bridge are likely to be sooner rather than later?
GG Bridge tolls are pissed away on buses for residents of Marin
Hard to say. I ride GG Transit and those buses are full of riders paying $3.50 each way. The express to Rohnert Park is 100% full at 7.25 a pop. Probably still subsidized, but imagine if all those commuters were in cars - what would Doyle look like then.
Maybe you should imagine what Doyle would look like while seated comfortably in that bus?
From the IJ article:
The one-way congestion fee would likely be collected by additional overhead sensors mounted near the Golden Gate Bridge toll plaza...
Looks like it would only affect users coming into the city, not going to Marin. So if you have a FasTrak, you'll pay $6 instead of $4. Sucky. Indeed.
More sucky, though, is the thought of Doyle Drive going the way of the I-35 bridge in Minnesota. I will pay for it without (too much) protest because I'd prefer for it to be safer.
This would only be reasonable if public transit options to Marin/Sonoma were reasonable. I used to live in the North Bay and take Golden Gate Transit. The buses are slow (even the express-version), they only go to downtown, and they cost a good amount of money. If we had bart/rail type of service up North, or a well-integrated bus system, this proposal might be a good idea.
And 19th Ave will become backed up to Santa Rosa....
Guess this is just the cost of getting the feds to chip in. It sounds like they are just following the lead of the State when it agreed to foot part of the Bay Bridge construction.
The distinction between Doyle Drive and the GG Bridge itself seems sort of silly unless they aren't going to charge folks who immediately enter or exit through the Presidio (and I bet the Presidio folks would just LOVE that). Why don't they just up the tolls $2 or whatever the variable charge is with a proviso that, like the other posters allude, the $2 can't go to fund those super-plush GG Transit buses. Only SF would spend millions on a second toll plaza, what, 100-500' away from the first one? Welcome to New Jersey.
I would be interested in learning whether SF actually asked for this sort of co-payment arrangement as a city when requesting the funding or whether it was imposed upon SF. I ask because:
(1) If they use congestion rather than flat pricing, doesn't that mean EVERYONE would have to get Fastrak?
(2) If they use congestion pricing, isn't then using it for downtown a fait accompli?
It also does not drain very well. It wasn't until my car hydroplaned one rainy night and spun into oncoming traffic that I learned that Doyle Drive is also known as "Blood Alley." Nice.
PS- The "poles" are yellow, not white. From the Golden Gate Bridge website:
$7 is a spectacular deal. When the Bay Bridge opened in the '30s the toll was $8.50 (in 2006 dollars) for one way!
Now the toll is only $5 for GGB and up to $2 more for Doyle drive. Use fees are the way to go here. I don't use Doyle Dr, so why do I need to pay for it?
To piggyback on #13's comment...
It's also a great deal when you look at the buses and ferries. A non-commuter ferry ride is $14.20 round trip to Larkspur or Sausalito. Regular commuters who buy tickets in bulk get a discount down to something like $8.20 for a round trip.
Personally, I think the bridge should be at least as expensive as the transit options if they are going to try to make transit viable. Buses & ferries aren't going to get any cheaper the way the hemorrhage money, so this is the next logical step.
#9: re: "If we had bart/rail type of service up North, or a well-integrated bus system, this proposal might be a good idea."
yeah.. it's too bad Marin county never had a chance to get in on the whole regional rail thing. If only they had had a chance, i'm sure the people of Marin would have said yes to BART.
oh wait...
ON another NOTE:::
I agree that it's silly to gripe about $7 tolls when the ferry costs at least that much.. usually more. Toll-wise, we've had it *very* good for a long time here in the Bay Area. Reality is finally catching up.
btw-- i alternate between the GGB and the ferry in my commute
Oh yeah, it'll all be spent on fixing the road. Will the still be fixing the road in 2067, when the toll's $29 or something? It's also another toll plaza, which will slow everyone down and probably suck up half the toll money anyway.
#9: "If we had bart/rail type of service up North, or a well-integrated bus system, this proposal might be a good idea."
Which rail/BART line were you planning on using to connect SF and Marin? D'ja notice that SF and Marin are separated by a deep body of water?
I don't like paying taxes either, but bridges are important.
I remember reading that when BART was being planned, the counties around the Bay opted in or out. The original plan for BART was for it to ring the entire Bay.
Marin opted out. They were afraid of "those city people" pouring in on trains. Translation: no blacks, browns etc. were wanted to contaminate the white north shores beyond the GG bridge.
So pay to drive, you Marin suckas! That's what you wanted, isn't it?
Why should the San Francisco tax payers bear the cost for the Marin residents who use Doyle for commuting every day ? ....the same Marin residents who refused BART and voted down installing a light rail system on tracks that were already in place in the county. People in Marin who are committed to lowering energy consumption and to traffic reduction already ride the cushy buses and the loungy ferries. Bite me, Marin drivers! Time to pay up.