July 24, 2007
Day Around the Bay
-- Power outages enrage your editor, city dwellers. [Chron, KGO]
-- Bang, bang: SF Supes okay with handguns. [KPIX]
-- Aging journalism fetishist and noted lover of the way old books smell, Frances Dinkelspiel, misguidedly and "ethereally" derides the Chronicle's hiring of former SFist editor Eve Batey. [GhostWorldWord]
-- Top-drawer Harvard fisticuffs, darling: Facebook sued by its old college chums. [Chron]
-- Trash talk to resume Wednesday morning. Grrrrul, please. [KRON 4]
-- Great white shark attempts Spielbergian attack. [KGO]
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Quote this Dinkenspiel lass:
"SFist, one of those city blogs with splashy graphics"
Obviously she's never seen the damned site. While I think we often have swell individual photos (mostly thanks to Jim), I wouldn't really point to "graphics" as our main characteristic.
(And, boy, Frances, all those publications relying exclusively on those with large amounts of "journalism experience" are doing SO WELL. How about we just let the industry keep going as it has been, so maybe more dailies can just be shuttered.)
I love how Cranky van der Bitch describes SFist as "one of those city blogs with splashy graphics."
Because all she can do is select a boring template from Blogger for her blog. It's 2007, grandma.
And hey, I'm an editor and I have no journalism experience. I was a musician for chrissakes. Some of us are just, um, well, talented.
If you are going to slam me online, at least get the name of my blog right. It's Ghost Word, not Ghost World. That's the difference between journalists and pretenders.
I think Jeremy and Cement Brunette are missing Frances' point. She is watching an entire profession, her profession, a once-respected one, being willingly dismantled, not just overhauled, by the big money men. One was once taught and trained in the use of a host of skills before one could call oneself a journalist; those skills are no longer taught. Why should she keep quiet about that? It is a true loss, not only to the people who are being thrown out of work, but to the society that was structured to have newspapers, useful newspapers.
SFist is a great place to catch up on what's going on (it was major handy yesterday with the power outages, for instance), but you guys simply do not provide analysis in the way newspapers used to. And it's not your job to do so. It's not like this is any bloggers' fault; again, it's the company directors and other assorted money men shaving dimes and dollars where they can.
And Cement, talent is a lot (speaking as a very talented person myself) but without training and practice, the talent you use to ply your trade is not as honed as it could be. You think you're talented as an editor now? Why not train up a bit and get better?
"That's the difference between journalists and pretenders."
What, aside from readership trends? Hint: one goes up, one goes down.
(and, really lady, as if "real journalists" aren't highly reliant on fact-checkers and copy editors for such things.)
Well, at least you've finally visited SFist and seen our "splashy graphics."
Now we'll divert our attention back to stealing jobs from real journalists. Anybody got the number for the CoCo Times? I'd get it myself, but I'm not a real journalist and am unsure of how to use this so-called "phone book."
Guest #4, YOU are making a very good point.
I didn't read hers the way you interpreted.
And I still think a fresh pair of eyes in a management position can often prove to be a good thing (in any profession, not just journalism).
Jeremy, this is Frances speaking. For your information, I read SFist regularly and enjoy it for what it is -- short, snappy commentary on the news. It's amusing and timely and serves a purpose. But these kind of websites rely heavily on printed news (look at many of the links) And those who contribute to sites like SFist generally don't have the time, or aren't paid enough to dig for hard-to-get information, which journalists do regularly. (And by the way, newspaper journalists don't rely on fact checkers. The news cycle runs too fast)
And since the CoCo Times is now owned by Dean Singleton's Media News, they wouldn't be all that interested in hiring you ... "Bare bones" is the corporate motto. Commentator #4 got it right.
As for Eve Bately, SFWeekly has a column today about the discomfort in the newsroom about her new position. No doubt she is a talented person who understands the Web. But you must put her promotion in context. The Chronicle just laid off dozens of people who were very good at their jobs and instead elevated someone to a major position in a business with which she is not very familiar. I just pointed that out, and didn't really make a snarly comment. I think you are mad because you think I slammed SFist, which Eve Bately helped start.
I'm going to break the first rule of commenting, which is that if you think you shouldn't comment, you shouldn't comment (and the second rule, which is to keep it short), but I did want to address some of the points that Frances raises.
To preface, I should say that Eve Batey, Jackson West and I are the three original people who started with SFist, and I consider Eve a very close friend. (Hi Eve, if you're reading this! You too, Jackson.)
I agree with a lot of the points you and many of the other posters have raised; blogs are fun, but I don't believe in any way that they can or should replace print journalism. (I will dispute your point that we have snazzy graphics, though!) Jeremy and I had a little debate about this awhile back.
I for one am very sorry that the Chron's been forced to resort to layoffs and I also worry that the downturn in support for print journalism will affect the quality of the news that's reported, which will, among other things, negatively affect SFist's ability to comment on the news.
That said, if the Chron's decided that the best way to win back advertiser dollars and their subscriber base is to build up their online presence, there isn't anyone better for that job in town than Eve Batey.
We here down in the minor leagues couldn't be happier that the Chron's recognized Eve's talent! We wish her and the Chron nothing but the best, and sincerely hope that all the laid-off journalists land on their feet.
Not wanting to add fuel to a fire that's basically burnt out, but when I worked at a daily (granted, a small-circulation daily that was industry-focused), I was one of those fact-checkers, and indeed my skills were regularly utilized by reporters.
But, yeah, I think everybody's made their respective points.
I bid you good day.
Thank you, my dear friends, for your remarks.
And, Frances, my name is Eve Batey, not Bately -- if you're going to slam me online, at least get my name right. (I won't finish the quote, because, now that I'm not some slack ass flashy graphics blogger, I try to eschew the obvious jokes.)
But I will say that I'm surprised that you came away from Will's SF Weekly piece thinking that it was, well, All About Eve (oh hell, I'm not just a dirty blogger, I'm a liar who EMBRACES the obvious joke). I can't speak to Will's journalistic intentions with the article (we had a lovely conversation about my background and plans, something I've never had the pleasure to enjoy with you, Frances), but I hardly think I'm the focus of it.
I, too , mourn the loss of my colleagues. Two of my best friends at the paper, John Curley and Catherine Bigelow, were lost in the buyouts, and I miss them every day. And they are far from the only folks that I miss -- Frances, if you were truly a daily reader of SFist, you would know that.
But to imply -- and, Frances, your remark above does indeed make that implication -- that new role was somehow dependent on the departure of my esteemed colleagues (and I do esteem each and every one of those who have left) is an offensive, misguided, and irresponsible assertion, and a disservice not just to me and to Mr. Bronstein, but to all those who have left.
Again, thanks to all of you (even you, Frances) for your comments. As long as folks remain passionate about the future of the Chronicle, we have a chance of making it.
oh, sweet frances. please, do not mess with eve bateLy. you are not ready for it, no matter how smug you are. and, get your facts straight.
"SF would be soooo much better if only it had a better mainstream newspaper. It's cliche, but the Chron blows."
I love the irony of that.
This thread—or, rather, Frances's post—belies another, as yet unidentified problem: Frances chose to denigrate Eve Batey, a woman whom she does not know and whose prior education and experience (aside from that at SFist) she is entirely unaware of, because Eve Batey occupies a job that Frances can not and will not ever hold. So rather than empathizing with Eve's position as a talented writer and editor-cum-scapegoat, she has instead elected to act as so many others do when someone else succeeds: Eve's a sell out! Eve's a dilettante! Eve's "the man!"
Frances, there is no “outside.” You are not a victim. By adopting the so, so tired “us vs. them” attitude—the one that has earned the Bay Area its naval-gazing reputation—you have done little but belie your own fear of inadequacy in the wake of a paradigm shift in your field. Eve didn't fire those folks, so why take a swipe at her? Why not consider, as I'm sure the newly laid off Chron journos are doing, how to work with what you have to work with?
To quote a musician undoubtedly dear to your Berkeley-bowling heart: “The times, they are a-changin.’”
Sink or swim, love.