SFist: Propaganda III: an Anti-American 4th of July Review

Jeremy

Mon, 23 Jul 2007 16:03:38 -0800

Well, Yogo, if you want to know the honest truth, it's because I didn't think it very appropriate to admit here in a public forum how often I enjoy your comments. But I generally do. Even when I don't, it's good having folks like you around, those with differing views and often biting insight. The problem is that you tend to go too far and get personally offensive to other SFist participants, and nobody here should feel bullied, unwelcomed, or threatened. You're very smart, and should have a pretty decent idea when you've gone from "provocative" to "offensive" or "out of bounds" (like saying a supervisor is a wife beater? -- c'mon, man). I believe there is a lot of room within the SFist community to have differing opinions without sinking into vitriol or baseless or inappropriate accusations. The "miserable bigots" you mention are obvious to most readers. Of course it pains me to see the ugliness above. But deleting it would be tantamount to pretending it doesn't exist. The other posters you point to as examples were dealt with in a manner similar to how we deal with all inappropriate comments. The more we have to police you folks, the less content there will be. Luckily, readership continues to grow and new people comment every day -- but it shouldn't be an either/or proposition. We enjoy hearing from everybody.

Yogo

Fri, 20 Jul 2007 15:56:55 -0800

Jeremy you have spoken clear as the day. My situation is different because you don't agree with my views. You let a miserable bigot post here and another poster say Daly should off himself and a poster gloat that a house burned down and yet i am the one who you don't like. Yeah rope to hang himself. Like we believe that. Gothamist policy is stifle the conservative or non hipsterloser and you hide behind that. When you man up ban me but i want you to blog on this and state why. Im not a fan of the offline because no one else can see the double standard. I still love you though and think SFist in theory is great.

guest

Fri, 20 Jul 2007 14:08:28 -0800

#18 - you surely don't mean guest 16 but 15. (16 was me replying to 15.)

Jeremy

Fri, 20 Jul 2007 09:37:23 -0800

Hey, Yogo -- By "this stuff" do you mean the article itself? Or the nasty anti-semetic comments? Because if it's the latter, believe me, it's just a matter of allowing those folks enough rope to hang themselves. Figuratively speaking, of course. Your situation is entirely different and we can discuss it in a non-public forum any time you like; contact info for me is on the staff page.

Yogo

Thu, 19 Jul 2007 23:31:13 -0800

All I know is I get threatened with the banning and this stuff stays up. Welcome to the SFist editors.

guest

Thu, 19 Jul 2007 23:20:54 -0800

Isn't it interesting that wherever Theo goes, cowardly nazis such as guest 9 and guest 16 follow in his wake, like remoras following a shark, contaminating this site with blatant anti-semitism? Either they're all part of the same group, or (more likely) Theo, guest 9,and guest 16 are all the same person. He just has separate personas to post his real feelings.

guest

Thu, 19 Jul 2007 23:15:20 -0800

The person posting here as "Theo" is a notorious antisemite and internet stalker who seems to have some kind of vendetta against neo-con bloggers. I've seen him post similar threatening comments all over the Web, and occasionally his true feelings come out, a real Jew-hater, and supporter of totalitarian tactics to quash the opinions of anyone he disagrees with (i.e. anyone to the right of Trotsky). To be frank, he makes me quite nervous whenever I see him post his trademark aggressive rants at various sites. I certainly hope that SFist doesn't cower in the face of his menacing hatemongering. What right does he have to control who SFist does and does not link to? What a megalomaniac.

guest

Thu, 19 Jul 2007 18:17:17 -0800

yeah, sftt, you're not an anti-semite. Of course. Watched enough propaganda about "jewish masters", heh?

guest

Thu, 19 Jul 2007 17:17:41 -0800

i call it as i see it. only a few brave souls can tell the truth in this city like h brown and theo here. good on you, lad. he knows what we're up against. or else, we fight a bunch of hateful wars against true heroes to do the bidding of our jewish masters. keep it up sfist. help celebrate hatred. sftt

guest

Thu, 19 Jul 2007 16:41:19 -0800

But he has no right to be linked to by SFist, and SFist should not link to someone like him approvingly. Huh?? What gives you that idea? I am an SFist reader, a SF resident, a blogger, and I want to see things that happen in the City covered here. Since Zombie provides some of that coverage - in photos, no sleight of hands here! - that does not appear elsewhere, I was very glad to see it on SFist.

theo

Thu, 19 Jul 2007 16:11:30 -0800

With regards to Alex's other relevant comment: But your desire for suppression of Zombie's viewpoint I have no interest in suppressing Zombie's views. He can run his own website and get linked to by his bigoted "blogfriends." He's an OK photographer, and you can look at his pretty pictures if you want. But he has no right to be linked to by SFist, and SFist should not link to someone like him approvingly. Um, how does publishing accurate pictures of "dissenters" constitute silencing them, Theo? his/her exposure would be a "service." What exactly do you hope would happen as a result? Not violence. Obviously. To answer both your questions, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. If Zombie wants to go around publishing pictures of Bay Area residents, in a context which implies they're extremists or terrorist supporters or fifth columnists (hence "stigmatizing and silencing"), then he deserves to have his own picture made public. "Zombie" is a coward -- it's that simple.

Jeremy

Thu, 19 Jul 2007 15:58:46 -0800

SFist pimps most or all of the local film festivals and events. Sorry that we're doing the same for the Jewish one as for the Hole in the Head and Slant and Frameline and Peaches Christ, etc. Poking fun at Mel Gibson is pro-Zionist somehow? I don't think so, sugartits. I'm sorry if we aren't your personal echo chamber, guest #9. Frankly, I think just about everybody can be offended by something on SFist, just as hopefully everybody can be amused or enjoy something.

theo

Thu, 19 Jul 2007 15:52:47 -0800

Alex, You argue "when you read about a lot of people showing up to a protest, the newspaper often obscures the fact that many of the attendees are the kind of people Zombie documents" You cannot be serious. Those few people are the ones who get in the newspapers ALL THE TIME. Primarily because they make interesting subjects. It's the people wearing normal work clothes who never get photographed, even though they were the vast majority of e.g. the several-hundred-thousand-strong Iraq war protests. "Zombie'"s coverage is entirely dispensable, and just adds to the media pile-on. It's misleading, uninformative, and operates in the service of an extremist agenda. I judge people by their friends, and "Zombie" associates with racist bigots like Charles Johnson of Little Green Footballs. If SFist wants to feature "Zombie," fine. I'll expect to start seeing Louis Farrakhan's bigoted associates on SFist any day now.

guest

Thu, 19 Jul 2007 15:25:54 -0800

open non-violent, democratic opposition isn't a "bourgeois luxury," it's a human right. But it's a human right not available to dissenters in Havana, Tehran, or Beijing. Go to Miami and ask the descendants of the "dissenters" executed by Che Guevara in the re-education camps he helped Castro build about their dead relatives' human rights. Then note the irony of all our domestic demonstrators wearing Che's face on T-shirts while openly exercising rights that he would have denied them if he was the target of their protests. desperate to silence and stigmatize our right to dissent Um, how does publishing accurate pictures of "dissenters" constitute silencing them, Theo? - Alex

guest

Thu, 19 Jul 2007 15:24:48 -0800

it isn't anti-semitism if it's true. we got this zombie jerk, a dig on mel gibson, and the constant pimping of the jewish film fesitival. i didn't realize sfist turned into aipac. if i want to visit jewist i will. sorry, i mean fox news. sftt

guest

Thu, 19 Jul 2007 15:06:47 -0800

Regarding Theo's first comment: First, your terminology belies your skewed viewpoint -- is there such a thing in your world as a moderate conservative or even center-right political orientation, or does it go from "fringe leftist" to leftist to progressive to liberal to centrist and then straight to "right-wingers"? Also, your dismissal as "stupid" Zombie's belief that exposure might result in an attack against him/her is kind of contradicted by your statement in the very next sentence that his/her exposure would be a "service." What exactly do you hope would happen as a result? Anyway, Zombie doesn't just document the silliness of the papier-mache puppet-head carriers and naked scrotum-inflaters who show up to the protests around here. They are ridiculous, of course, but that's part of his/her point: when you read about a lot of people showing up to a protest, the newspaper often obscures the fact that many of the attendees are the kind of people Zombie documents. Zombie's photos add some useful context. Zombie also documents some of the rabid and naked hatred displayed by many of the pro-Palestinian / anti-Israel protestor contingent, which you seldom read about in the papers. How is ensuring their real messages are seen by a wider audience not a useful public service? Also, Zombie often exposes deceptive media tactics, as in this photo essay illustrating how the Chronicle's selective photo editorial choices concealed some interesting and relevant contextual facts about a particular protest. S/he even gave the Chronicle a link to its rebuttal, though the Chronicle didn't deign to give him/her the same courtesy. If you disagree, you're free to criticize or rebut. But your desire for suppression of Zombie's viewpoint because you don't like it is kind of out of line. The response to speech you disagree with is counter-speech, not suppression. - Alex

Peter

Thu, 19 Jul 2007 15:02:27 -0800

better late than never. i dig that dude's pics. i didn't notice the lebanon insignia. and some of the photog's thoughts on iranian sources were off, but to each his own. i was hoping to see more controversial stuff there - maybe next time. http://shmooth.blogspot.com/2007/07/propaganda-iii-world-tour-san-francisco.html

guest

Thu, 19 Jul 2007 14:37:49 -0800

Of course this show would do GREAT in Tehran and Beirut - look at the content! (Some of it was apparently created there anyway.) These aren't "hippies" who wouldn't attack anybody, nor are there so "few" of them. These idiots can't be "changed", as they are a bunch of most close-minded immatures one can imagine - on the par with the worst right-wing "conspirators", for that matter. Thank you for bringing more light to this, sfist!

theo

Thu, 19 Jul 2007 14:33:04 -0800

And "Guest," open non-violent, democratic opposition isn't a "bourgeois luxury," it's a human right. Sadly, Bush has discredited democracy worldwide by being such an authoritarian and a failure. The funny thing about people like "Zombie", Charles Johnson of LGF, "Guest" and their friends, is that for all their pretense at patriotism, they're the ones who are desperate to silence and stigmatize our right to dissent. That's Zombie's modus operandi. Just look at every antiwar protest march photo he's ever taken. Fortunately, they no longer have the power to silence criticism of Bush and his failed wars, and soon the 75% of the country who live in reality will drive them back to their padded cells, where the Fox News anchors in their heads will tell them they're still winning.

theo

Thu, 19 Jul 2007 14:30:15 -0800

The other cruel joke is that they could have held this exact show in Tel Aviv without incident, just like a gay pride parade Unsurprisingly, it's not so cut-and-dried. Tel Aviv, sure. But Gay Pride parades in Jerusalem require twice as many police as marchers, and frequently provoke rioting and stabbings. And based on what I've heard from former residents of Beirut, this show would have done alright there, at least before the last invasion.

Leanne

Thu, 19 Jul 2007 13:56:51 -0800

Matt and I both wrote differing write-ups preceding of the event. I went to the show, and the whole environment/crowd was a bit weird. The amount of posters was overwhelming, and it was hard to focus on very many of them. Some were better than others. The fact that it's not curated and every submission was accepted would lead to some questionable viewpoints. And, Guest, the show is scheduled to show in Tehran and many other parts of the world this year. I thought Zombie's review was hilarious though.

guest

Thu, 19 Jul 2007 13:39:46 -0800

Go Zombie! I don't imagine that the organizers of the show understand that a similar show of dissent could not happen in Tehran, Havana, Beijing, Caracas, or Gaza. In the first cities they would be in jail, and in the last one gunmen would have shot up the opening. Open non-violent opposition is a bourgeois luxury. The other cruel joke is that they could have held this exact show in Tel Aviv without incident, just like a gay pride parade, and remember that the cities I listed above don't allow that either. To the organizers and their fans, lap it up hypocrites, before your own revolutionaries silence you.

theo

Thu, 19 Jul 2007 13:12:20 -0800

That's the second link to zombietime in a week. I guess his self-promotion is working. "Zombie" is a far-right conspiracy theorist who associates with racists like those at the hate site Little Green Footballs ("LGF"). (See also LGF Watch.) According to the proprietor of LGF, he is an "LGF operative." He advocates loony conspiracy theories, including that the Flight 93 memorial is a crescent pointing towards Mecca, and was designed by Islamofascist traitors. Meanwhile, sane people (even right wingers) realize the theory is asinine. Everyone knows that there are a few fringe leftists around the Bay Area. Ultimately, their art, and their actions, add up to nothing. But "Zombie"'s mission in life is to inflate their silliness into some kind of Islamic fifth column menace. He isn't interested in educating or changing them; he's interested in using their stupidity to strengthen and further polarize the extreme right wingers who have been responsible for the destruction of America's reputation, moral compass and democracy over the last seven years. Oh, and he does it anonymously, because his readers are stupid enough to believe that a hippie mob is going to attack him if his identity is revealed. If anyone was at this event (or any event "Zombie" photographed) and can out him, please do so. You'd be doing a great service. And dear SFist, please stop posting his trash. Thanks.