July 10, 2007
SFist Photo: Noe Nimbies vs Google's Transit System
Supervisor Bevan Dufty holds court today at City Hall as broker among representatives from Google, Noe Valley residents and an alphabet soup of acronymed governmental agencies.
Google's famous reverse commute bus service remains a bee in the bonnet of some Noe Valley denizens, so Supervisor Dufty called a meeting to sort things out. What can be done about these "misery"-creating "mammoth buses"? Find out after the jump.
Some of the residents, particularly those who live on Jersey, feel that the buses are too big and noisy. Is Jersey big enough for 45 foot buses? You make the call, courtesy of the Google Maps Street View!
One resident called for the relatively young Googlers to just walk down 24th to Valencia everyday and catch the Google bus when it stops there. We'll call that choice Healthy Weekdays. We're down on 24th all the time but we never really noticed these buses. Sorry. (We see and hear them of course, but they don't leave a lasting impression.) It's hard for us to witness all the "misery" that some claim this service creates. [You want misery? Just think about Stephen King's movie that uses the same term. Can you imagine what poor Jimmy Caan and Kathy Bates had to go through working with director Rob Reiner for two whole months? Now that's misery!]
Finding a way to reduce number of trips these admittedly large vehicles make down Jersey seems to be the way things are heading. It's not all that simple, what with weight restrictions and the like. But it looks like things will all work out. They're working on it.
[Oh, and we almost forgot to mention, Bevan's new intern, the lovely CRISTA MENDOZA (in the white V-neck in back) turned 21 TODAY! She came all the way up from Stanfoo to help us here in S.F. for the summer, so let's all wish her a very happy birthday!]
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I see the neighbors complaints as reasonable. Why can't Google run these shuttles to transit stops as GENENTECH does. Glen park, Church and Market and build this off of public transportation rather than what Google does which seems to be running dozens of almost empty shuttles all over town
The Noe Valley Voice actaully had a verging-on-hilarious article about this, but it's yet to be posted on that paper's Web site. For shame!
And, Jim -- I personally don't mind the buses, but you really can't miss them -- I see at least 2 every day during my leisurely stroll from Noe to the 24th St. BART station.
(It's certainly hard to miss the folks waiting for said buses as well--people working for Google look just like people that should be working for Google. If that makes any sense.)
Typical Bevan, trying to find common ground and solve district disputes amicably, so that everybody is happy. Where is the fun in that. We want Chris.....
Creds to these residents! Google is arrogant to think that imposing 45' buses on a residential street isn't going to have a negative impact on the surrounding community.
I think the plural of NIMBY is NIMBYs, not nimbies. I don't think you have to change the Y to IE if its an acronym.
Wow.. people who live in Noe Valley would turn into mass murderers if they had to put up with the vehicles cruising off of 280 into Potrero Hill on Mariposa....
What about that each person who uses the bus might be driving a car instead? Isn't that even worse?
Change the inclines of the hills so that the 45 foot bus gets stuck on one of the declines.
I'm a resident and I feel it's too convenient of a label to characterize these concerns as NIMBY-ISM. We're not out to dismantle what Google is trying to do here and applaud their committment to taking cars off the road.
Our main concern is mitigating the impact of really, really big buses regularly going up and down small residential streets not designed to accomodate this kind of traffic.
Should we consider Google employees' comfort (i.e., not wanting to walk a bit down 24th St. to a stop better designed to handle this kind of traffic) as the primary consideration and the neighborhood be damned?
I think the bus should stop at Mission and Cesar Chavez. Nice park and ride lot there.
google employees have the same carpooling and public transportation options as other folks commuting to the south bay. Like myself and hundreds of other workers who take caltrain to mt. view. So I don't agree with people implying that the alternatives are either droves of huge buses or droves of single occupancy vehicles.
If I worked for a company with a shuttle service I would partake in it. I would be responsible though and make it clear to those that run the service if the service was unnecessarily detrimental to the community for my own personal gains...
I think the google employees should be honest with themselves about how they would feel if the roles were reversed and make a change from within.
I look forward to a mutually amicable solution.
cheers.
Keep in mind the human nature of laziness. Given the choice between: A) taking public transit or walking 15-20 minutes to reach a shuttle which will then take 50+ minutes to get you to work or B) driving your car which will take you 45 minutes to get you to work, even many of the environmentally semi-conscious people will drive their cars. Spending a total of 1.5 hours in a daily commute is much different from spending a total of 2.25 hours.
Note that many Googlers might already live a 10 minute walk from the Noe Valley stop, and that suggesting they walk to mission would make that a 25-30 minute walk.
That said, the neighbors have valid complaints. Is the solution that hard? Have the shuttles go on major roads and have them not idle. Seems like that would pretty much resolve all the issues...
The Google behemouths on 8th at Market (we call them "Darth Vader Vans") park their fat asses in the bike lane and idle -- sometimes two at once. Cyclists on their way to Caltrain -- like my husband -- are dangerously forced into traffic as a result.
Good on the Noe Valley residents for speaking out!
It's not laziness, #12. Time is money.
and note that the googlers are choosing a 50+ minute ride on a comfy bus that has Wi-Fi and coffee. OK, I don't know about the coffee but definitely the wi-fi.
A lot of said googlers take Caltrain with us on Fridays in the bike car, you don't see them too often otherwise. The shuttles get rave reviews from them.
I used to live on Jersey, it's a pretty narrow street. I don't suspect a lot of hullabaloo over this in the end. The residents are making their big vocal complaint, then google will quickly do something about it, after the residents have steeled themselves for this huge battle that will never happen.
As a Jersey Street Resident, I am not opposed to the buses or the service Google/Bauer run. However, one of the bus sizes is indeed too large for Jersey (there are several size buses Bauer uses for the shuttle service), i'm talking about the large tour bus size coach. On a regular basis, I witness the coaches(all sizes) speeding on Jersey and have seen them run stop signs. This is not a case of NIMBYism on my part, I feel the safety of Jersey Street is compromised. If the coaches were appropriately sized and the drivers exercised some caution, I see no other issue. Thanks.
the noe valley voice is the reason that real foods is still a mess. they are nothing but a budinsky dedicated to preserving their ultra-elitist view of noe that has to stay EXACTLY THE WAY IT IS. they take a lot of ad dollars from the farmers market and supposedly there are under-the-table deals. they wouldn't know about real noe people is one mugged them.
mean while, why not just use slightly smaller buses?
I'm a Google employee, a Noe Valley resident, and a shuttle bus rider. I think there are definitely some legitimate concerns (buses driving too quickly/erratically, idling unnecessarily), but I urge my fellow residents of Noe to be open to a mutually beneficial solution. Google is wholeheartedly committed to finding a compromise, and the neighborhood will benefit as a result: Several of my colleagues specifically don't own cars because of the commuter bus service, which benefits all of us environmentally as well as traffic-/parking-wise. I also wanted to clear up the misconception that Google is operating unnecessarily large buses; while they may appear "half-empty" when loading passengers in Noe Valley, they are usually full following the second pick-up location in the Mission. In fact, the larger coach buses have become more prevalent simply because many Google employees were being left behind at the second stop. Google is attempting to cooperate; I only ask that the neighborhood be open to meeting in the middle.
"[4]Creds to these residents! Google is arrogant to think that imposing 45' buses on a residential street isn't going to have a negative impact on the surrounding community." -Anonymous reader
Yeah! And when Dufty is done going after Google he can take on Muni, I live on 14th street and those fucking gas powered MUNI buses going uphill are the bane of my sleepless existence. Gosh MUNI sure is arrogant! How dare they destroy my quiet little Duboce Triangle neighborhood for the sake of running some stinking gas powered 45' bus up and down 14th. JERKS.
Hey number [9] all I heard was "I'm rich and I shouldn't have to listen to loud buses! Let the poor people who can only afford a main thoroughfare apartment hear that noise. That's what poor people are for!"
Suck it.
I still don't understand why google can't follow the example of GENENTECH and run their shuttles to places more appropriate such at Glen Park Bart and Church and Market...
21, unlike the city agencies which we frequently discuss here on SFist, Google is actually a very efficient agency and consider a lot of factors when making the decision to place their shuttle stops. So I'm guessing they looked at where the main concentration of their riders are, and placed the stop there. Let's face it, our beautiful city isn't always blessed with this gorgeous weather we're having lately...when it's freezing, windy, and drizzling, trekking to Church and Market isn't a peachy option.
Kay has a great point -- by and large, I think Google's decisions over the past few years have been more impressive than any municipal agency here in San Francisco.
How about we . . . wait for it . . . put Google in charge of MUNI? YES!
19 - Actually standard Muni buses are shorter than 45 feet long. 45 feet is the maximum sized legal bus in the U.S. today and requires special dispensation to run on select routes. Muni is organic to any neighborhood and you can choose to live on a Muni route or not. When Muni wants to implement a new route they put public notices up and consult with the neighborhood and have a hearing. Google's private transit bus route not only just showed up but it keeps getting bigger. Sure, have Google run Muni--just hold them to the same responsible community standards.
[24]" When Muni wants to implement a new route they put public notices up and consult with the neighborhood and have a hearing." -Anon.
Hahhaa, OH THAT'S RICH! MUNI Listens to the citizens of San Francisco? Who the fuck are you kidding?
What's the big deal here? Isn't Google buying Noe Vally?
I'm a Noe Valley Resident (as if that makes my opinion worth anything, but just to up the ante with previous commenters) and I can safely say that the Google limos are far less problem than the double-wide fertility-drug-triplet strollers and the elephantine SUVs that my "concerned about safety on our narrow streets" neighbors use to regularly attempt to run me down.
The sanctimonious whiners who are complaining to Gavin "mini me" Dufty about buses in their midst are the same ones who drive alone to their jobs and drive to the Noe Valley Organic Famer's Market, merrily running stop signs on their way.
And whenever anybody mentions "community standards" I reach for my revolver.
Who needs it? Roll on, Google!
PS Never worked there, never will.
PPS If there's one thing that living here for 15 years has taught me, it's that the only thing anybody here cares about is parking -- free parking, for them, on public streets for their private automobiles, courtesy of residential permit stickers and infinite whining about "excessive density" and "commuters invading our streets" and "values" and "neighborhood character". Bevan Newsom fits us to a T.
I saw front door service for all googlers as they are very special people
Is a 102” bus too wide for a narrow neighborhood street? Certainly the occasional 102” moving truck is OK, as all other cars can take the extra care to maneuver around very slowly when an oversized vehicle appears on an occasional basis. So clearly frequency plays a part in answering this question. Would it be OK if this 102” wide vehicle came down the narrow neighborhood street hourly, making all the cars do their careful maneuvering to avoid hazard, on an hourly basis? What about every 15 minutes? Certainly the increase in frequency increases the likelihood of an accident? At what point is it deemed a hazard? At what point is the hazard worth addressing, before someone actually gets hurt? If there is a fairly painless alternative, would it not make sense to address the hazard immediately? If there is a wider street one block away that was designed for oversized vehicles, and that supports bus travel, would that street be a good alternative for these frequent 102” wide buses?? What about the simple idea of keeping oversized vehicles to the wider streets that were designed for oversized vehicles?
As for the "greenness" of the Google service, I applaud the overall concept and the long-haul piece of it. But on the local feeder route I've witnessed people getting off the Muni 48 at 24th and Castro to go around the corner and get on the Google bus that is going to the exact same location. A new bus going where an existing bus already goes does not seem that green to me. Am I missing something?
You ever have to drive on 101 with those things? The drivers plop their behinds in the left lane and drive slower than the traffic to their right. This is both rude and ILLEGAL. Then once the all-but-useless-Bay-Area-carpool-lanes start up 2/3 of the way to Mountain View, they get over in to that, still doing no more than exactly 65 and blocking anyone behind them from passing.
It's nice that Google provides this service for their employees, but the drivers need to show some respect for other motorists.
Google pulls a lot of this kind of crap. Working in the very near vacinity of Google is an exercise in daily frustration. They are so very rude, and make very poor neighbors. We have a pool going of who will be the first to mow down a Google employee darting across the street. There's two categories, accidental and intentional. I think the intentional will happen first. Maybe I'll just aim for one of those retarded scooters.
I'm a Googler who lives in the Castro and takes the Noe Valley shuttle and want to add another data point.
I totally agree with residents that the buses shouldn't drive or idle on small residential streets, speed, or block bike lanes.
I do want to point out that it's not as simple as saying that lazy Googlers should walk from the Noe to the Valencia stop. It's already about a (hilly) mile walk for me to get from my home to the nearest Google shuttle. Walking to Valencia & 24th would add another 3/4 miles on top of that, which is a lot every morning and night.
Also, taking the shuttle takes longer than driving, when one takes into account the time to walk to the shuttle, wait for the shuttle, and additional stops. My main reason for taking the shuttle is environmental.
Anyway, I'm glad most people seem to be constructive about this and hopeful a compromise can be found.