SFist: Ask a Muni Security Guy

this guy

Thu, 17 May 2007 15:43:01 -0800

another question on fare skipping and getting caught: i've always figured that if i do skip the fare or have an expired transfer that i'd just tell the security person that i'd lost my transfer. oops! what are they gonna do? theoretically, isn't the burden on them to prove that i didn't pay?

this guy

Thu, 17 May 2007 15:39:15 -0800

question for muni security guy: after years in SF, i'd never really taken the trains, just buses, until i recently moved. so maybe i'm just a dumb newbie on this, but a few times i've tried to take the train from the powell station in the evening. there's no one there and no way to pay anyone $1.50. so i just go through the side gate. a) how frickin stupid is it to have a gate right there that you can walk through? b) every time i'm worried about getting busted. what the heck am i supposed to do?

this guy

Thu, 17 May 2007 15:34:43 -0800

i noticed recently that there are little infrared/laser door alert thingies on the back doors of muni buses - kinda like the things stores have to go "bong!" when you enter. i dont know how long they've been there, but i assume that they're there to detect people coming in the back door (heh, heh). is that true and if fare evasion is a problem, why arent' they used? I was on the 22 the other day and at every stop the bus driver would start yelling at all back door enterers to show their passes or transfers. of the dozen or so people at every stop that got on in the back, maybe, MAYBE one would hold up a small piece of paper that maybe was or maybe was not a transfer. we'd sit there for a few while the driver kept jumping up and down about it. then he'd sit down and move on to the next stop. WTF?? if you're going to waste my time by doing this every stop, kick some people off the bus. instead the guy was just reinforcing the perception that you don't need to pay because no one would do anything anyway.

andy c

Thu, 17 May 2007 11:11:31 -0800

and scraping together $1.50 is even easier. really, if i had i car i'd be paying $150 every month just for parking, i don't buy your arguments about that one bit. i agree that keeping stinky homeless dudes of the train would be nice. and bodily fluids. i've seen 3 different incidents involving semen on muni which were quite unpleasant or hilarious depending on how you look at it. i really don't know how to prevent that kind of stuff without a guard on every train though.

MattyMatt

Thu, 17 May 2007 09:28:26 -0800

Even when I was on unemployment, I could have scraped together $150 over the course of a month without crippling myself. I'm not saying it would be easy, but then it wouldn't be much of a penalty if it was.

mindful_indulgence

Thu, 17 May 2007 07:39:01 -0800

ok i can't do math. still. one hundred times the fare?? And if you don't think that's "crippling" to most people, then I want your job. I mean, as long as I don't have to count and stuff. Don't even get me started on the homeless who abuse the system and ride for free all day and NEVER get ticketed, leaving their bodily fluids and garbage on the train while i'm sure having an impact on what the rest of us pay to ride. i bought a car.

T.E. Lawrence

Thu, 17 May 2007 01:02:36 -0800

Questions for Muni Security Guy: Why do the fare inspectors seem to cluster together in packs of 4 or more? Safety in numbers? Or because it's an easier way to check for passes/transfers? Got any interesting "war" stories? How many times in the last year did SFPD/MTA Security respond to 5150 calls regarding disruptive/mentally ill passengers aboard Muni vehicles? What did you think about the whiny Ken Garcia column... the one about how his daughter and her friends were "mortified" after they were caught without transfers? (Dunno bout you, but Garcia is a dick) hxxp://www.examiner.com/a-583229~Garcia__Muni_s_payment_monitors_are_too_gung_ho.html Thanks and stay safe out there.

MattyMatt

Wed, 16 May 2007 22:25:19 -0800

$150 is one hundred times the price of a fare ($1.50 x 1000 = $1,500). I don't think that's "low," but I do think it's about right -- for the average Muni rider, enough to be inconvenient, not enough to be crippling.

mindful_indulgence

Wed, 16 May 2007 19:32:39 -0800

"They are enforced by the information provided by the individual. The courts determine if the citation was answered by the cited individual or otherwise taken care of. The courts themselves issue the fines - generally very low. fare evasion citations are not taken very seriously by the courts. There is a process in the works that fare evasion citations will be handled through the DPT Hearing Officer in the future. Oh my god, what BULL! I'm sorry dude, I don't mean to take this out on you personally but either you are the most ignorant fare inspector ever or you're paid to LIE THROUGH YOUR TEETH. I got nailed my first week in SF - I gave him my right info, he completed avoided the question of "how much?" by saying he didn't know. The ticket? $150 (at the time) - One thousand times the price of a fare. Do not tell me that this is "low." The only reason you don't tell people when they ask you is you know you'll get your ass kicked. I'm just saying - be honest.

bornandraised

Wed, 16 May 2007 19:05:55 -0800

First, thanks for answering my first question. Second, I think its really important for San Francisco to realize that we brought much of this upon ourselves. Back in the day (as I am told by my parents) MUNI implemented a strategy to cut commuter times by encouraging boarding in the rear. Now, we talk aboutit like its the anti-christ. I go to school in New York, and in all the times ive taken the busses (which is pretty often) I haven't seen a single person board from the rear. I dont know how MUNI is going to pull out of the culture its created of rear door boarding. I know that there are cultures though, ones made of all sorts of people like new york, that PAY for their public transit.

Mark Ballew

Wed, 16 May 2007 18:34:51 -0800

Re: Erin My understanding was that the cameras in the vehicle were "rotated" after so many hours, basically recording in a loop. If there is a crime on a bus, it needs to be taken out ASAP before the tape loops. Perhaps this is the question for the security guy? Thanks for answering my question, by the way, politics shouldn't come before safety.

Erin

Wed, 16 May 2007 18:13:45 -0800

uhm, who cares about fare enforcement? I have twice in three months seen people openly assaulted (slapped in the face or shoved) for their ipods and/or purses while stoned/drunk Muni drivers drool on themselves. Also, there are cameras installed on Muni (the cost of which I will assume was passed down to commuters) but when Muni HQ is contacted they will tell you there are never tapes in the camera. Uhm... retarded?