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In today's installment of "Ask a Muni Security Guy" our security guy answers questions that commenters asked last time around. He will also discuss this week's Muni news about budget cuts and their impact on Muni security. And before we go to the post, we'd like to formally announce that "Ask a Muni Driver" will be returning next Monday as we have another driver willing to answer all your questions.
As always, if you have any questions to either the driver or the security guy, e-mail us at editor@sfist.com.
Now back to our regularly scheduled broadcast.
Earlier this week, the Examiner had a story about Muni's attempts to deal with their budget problems. One of the reasons for the budget problems is that they haven't been able to hire the fare inspectors needed to collect the money that was projected to come in.
Here is our security guy's response:
"Fare Inspector hiring was delayed due in part to SFPD Deputy Chief Tony Parra (the "head" of the MTA Security and Enforcement Division) and MTA Human Resources / City - County Controllers office.
The extra positions were justified and submitted to the Controllers office for approval. The Controller only okayed x amount per month - 6 usually. We wanted to start up to 10 per month but Controller and HR office slowing things WAY down.
I don't think the extra personnel will help put a dent into the "fare evasion" but their presence would help. The fare inspectors are only assigned to trains. There is a pilot program to get the fare inspectors onto the buses and this is being met with resistance - internally and externally.
Externally - SFPD is arguing we're taking their jobs away by doing this.
Internally - the MTA is scared to face up to the real facts. Most riders take the bus, not
trains.
Cable Cars: We have fare inspection staff working in plain clothes "monitoring" the conductor, the person who received and handles the cash and issues receipts. WAIT until their union finds out. fare inspectors are in Local 250-A as are cable car conductors and gripman. Their own union members reporting on their counterparts... !!!
And in case you were wondering, fare inspectors make between $50,102.00 - $60,892.00 a year. You can read all about it here.
After the jump, he answers your questions.
These were asked in last week's post-
im really curious about the fare citations. ive seen them handed out but i dont understand how they can be enforced. i mean, without a liscence registration (like parking tickets) or a photo/finger print (like any major arresting) how do you know people will pay the citations?
They are enforced by the information provided by the individual. The courts determine if the citation was answered by the cited individual or otherwise taken care of. The courts themselves issue the fines - generally very low. fare evasion citations are not taken very seriously by the courts. There is a process in the works that fare evasion citations will be handled through the DPT Hearing Officer in the future.
Why doesn't Muni have a police force similar to the Bart police? Why aren't these two forced combined? (this caused some confusion when I tried to talk to a Bart officer about a crime I spotted on the Muni platform, not Bart's, in Powell one day)
Politics, pure and simple. SFPD does not want to "loose" positions by having others present to "do their job." Yet - SFPD is up to 500 positions down. They don't have the people to do their own job let alone provide any resemblence of "safety" or "security" for muni.
Years ago, in the 70's, there was a muni transit police but that was federally funded and basically a stepping stone for folks to get into SFPD (at that time). After the program expired (funding stopped), it went by the wayside. In the meantime, SFPD absorbed the Port Police and the Housing Authority Police (when they were all separate agencies). Look at what the Port has now - the Port pays for one (1) full time officer. The Port never sees him/her. Look at what the Housing Authority has now - nothing (basically). The calls are handled by the District stations only. The housing authority contracts with private security (Professional Protective Services - pretty sure of that name or PPS for short) now and they handle most of the housing stuff.....
Re inforcement, I suspect that they'd try to detain you and wait for a real cop to take you away if you didn't have ID. If this were LA, you can bet that the cops would beat the shit out of you for not having ID. In the city, who knows.
For those individuals that cooperate and wait, the fare inspectors will call for the SFPD. The response time is another story - half an hour on up to an hour average wait time. This is not a priority (high or otherwise) for SFPD.
Muni has security? I just LOL'd
Yes, you're right, it is very LOL.
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uhm, who cares about fare enforcement? I have twice in three months seen people openly assaulted (slapped in the face or shoved) for their ipods and/or purses while stoned/drunk Muni drivers drool on themselves.
Also, there are cameras installed on Muni (the cost of which I will assume was passed down to commuters) but when Muni HQ is contacted they will tell you there are never tapes in the camera. Uhm... retarded?
Re: Erin
My understanding was that the cameras in the vehicle were "rotated" after so many hours, basically recording in a loop. If there is a crime on a bus, it needs to be taken out ASAP before the tape loops.
Perhaps this is the question for the security guy?
Thanks for answering my question, by the way, politics shouldn't come before safety.
First, thanks for answering my first question.
Second, I think its really important for San Francisco to realize that we brought much of this upon ourselves. Back in the day (as I am told by my parents) MUNI implemented a strategy to cut commuter times by encouraging boarding in the rear. Now, we talk aboutit like its the anti-christ. I go to school in New York, and in all the times ive taken the busses (which is pretty often) I haven't seen a single person board from the rear.
I dont know how MUNI is going to pull out of the culture its created of rear door boarding. I know that there are cultures though, ones made of all sorts of people like new york, that PAY for their public transit.
"They are enforced by the information provided by the individual. The courts determine if the citation was answered by the cited individual or otherwise taken care of. The courts themselves issue the fines - generally very low. fare evasion citations are not taken very seriously by the courts. There is a process in the works that fare evasion citations will be handled through the DPT Hearing Officer in the future.
Oh my god, what BULL! I'm sorry dude, I don't mean to take this out on you personally but either you are the most ignorant fare inspector ever or you're paid to LIE THROUGH YOUR TEETH. I got nailed my first week in SF - I gave him my right info, he completed avoided the question of "how much?" by saying he didn't know. The ticket? $150 (at the time) - One thousand times the price of a fare. Do not tell me that this is "low." The only reason you don't tell people when they ask you is you know you'll get your ass kicked. I'm just saying - be honest.
$150 is one hundred times the price of a fare ($1.50 x 1000 = $1,500). I don't think that's "low," but I do think it's about right -- for the average Muni rider, enough to be inconvenient, not enough to be crippling.
Questions for Muni Security Guy:
Why do the fare inspectors seem to cluster together in packs of 4 or more? Safety in numbers? Or because it's an easier way to check for passes/transfers?
Got any interesting "war" stories?
How many times in the last year did SFPD/MTA Security respond to 5150 calls regarding disruptive/mentally ill passengers aboard Muni vehicles?
What did you think about the whiny Ken Garcia column... the one about how his daughter and her friends were "mortified" after they were caught without transfers? (Dunno bout you, but Garcia is a dick)
hxxp://www.examiner.com/a-583229~Garcia__Muni_s_payment_monitors_are_too_gung_ho.html
Thanks and stay safe out there.
ok i can't do math. still. one hundred times the fare?? And if you don't think that's "crippling" to most people, then I want your job. I mean, as long as I don't have to count and stuff. Don't even get me started on the homeless who abuse the system and ride for free all day and NEVER get ticketed, leaving their bodily fluids and garbage on the train while i'm sure having an impact on what the rest of us pay to ride.
i bought a car.
Even when I was on unemployment, I could have scraped together $150 over the course of a month without crippling myself. I'm not saying it would be easy, but then it wouldn't be much of a penalty if it was.
and scraping together $1.50 is even easier.
really, if i had i car i'd be paying $150 every month just for parking, i don't buy your arguments about that one bit.
i agree that keeping stinky homeless dudes of the train would be nice. and bodily fluids. i've seen 3 different incidents involving semen on muni which were quite unpleasant or hilarious depending on how you look at it. i really don't know how to prevent that kind of stuff without a guard on every train though.
i noticed recently that there are little infrared/laser door alert thingies on the back doors of muni buses - kinda like the things stores have to go "bong!" when you enter. i dont know how long they've been there, but i assume that they're there to detect people coming in the back door (heh, heh). is that true and if fare evasion is a problem, why arent' they used?
I was on the 22 the other day and at every stop the bus driver would start yelling at all back door enterers to show their passes or transfers. of the dozen or so people at every stop that got on in the back, maybe, MAYBE one would hold up a small piece of paper that maybe was or maybe was not a transfer. we'd sit there for a few while the driver kept jumping up and down about it.
then he'd sit down and move on to the next stop.
WTF?? if you're going to waste my time by doing this every stop, kick some people off the bus. instead the guy was just reinforcing the perception that you don't need to pay because no one would do anything anyway.
question for muni security guy:
after years in SF, i'd never really taken the trains, just buses, until i recently moved. so maybe i'm just a dumb newbie on this, but a few times i've tried to take the train from the powell station in the evening. there's no one there and no way to pay anyone $1.50. so i just go through the side gate.
a) how frickin stupid is it to have a gate right there that you can walk through?
b) every time i'm worried about getting busted. what the heck am i supposed to do?
another question on fare skipping and getting caught: i've always figured that if i do skip the fare or have an expired transfer that i'd just tell the security person that i'd lost my transfer. oops! what are they gonna do? theoretically, isn't the burden on them to prove that i didn't pay?