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Sarah Palin Quits
We saw this story about problems involving the building of a helipad for SF General and our first, initial thought, was yawn. Then we digged around a bit (with help from SFist Jim) and realized, of course, this is San Francisco which means nothing is never easy and everyone goes around saying and doing silly things. In this case, we have NIMBYism, web sites, discussion of class issues, and guerilla art. Yes, guerrila art over a helipad. You can't say we don't have a sense of proportion over things here in San Francisco. Maybe there should be a mural done at Precita Eyes over all of this?
First the details. In 2003, the San Francisco’s Health Commission approved a plan to build a helipad on SF General. The target date for an Environmental Impact Report (EIR) was 2005. It still isn't ready. The idea behind the helipad is that SF General is the only Level 1 Trauma Center that doesn't have one. Proponents of the plan say that trauma victims have a better chance of surviving within one hour of the trauma and that a helipad could save time compared to ambulances trying to negotiate city traffic.
So here comes the battle. Neighbors don't like the idea because helicopters are loud and helicopters could crash. It could also mean lower property values. So a meeting on the issue in 2005 with the Board of Supes brought lots of nasty phone calls and letters and vociferous opposition. A web site, Stop the SF General Helipad, was set up which claimed that the helipad won't be used mainly for SF General but as a transportation hub to send patients to other hospital. That would be bad. They also point out that most people who get put on helicopters have insurance so are mainly rich, upper-middle class people and that would be doubly bad (although one wonders how it is determined what class a person is when the helicopter is called in. Does the trauma center check the insurance of the person before determining their mode of transportation?) And more people brought into SF General with good insurance would take beds and emergency services from people without insurance. We all know, of course, that the last thing we would want is a full hospital.
The EIR is supposed to come out this summer. Or that's the new plan. The reason for the delay is that, according to an environmental review officer for The City’s Planning Department, they've never done an EIR on a helipad.
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I like the idea of putting the birds underground with the Amtrack...
Both sides are spewing misinformation. I don't believe that the issue is about class. More rich people at the hospital will not crowd out the needy. It may bring some additional resources to an ailing department and allow the city to better fund other health related programs.
I live in the effected hood and am all for Hellsacopters in my backyard. Honestly, I would prefer that the property values dropped a bit. Maybe then I could buy a motherfucking house in this bourgeouise, espresso-shop like mushrooms popping candyland. BTW, the art certainly ain't gorrila, it is just bad.
I like the idea of putting the birds underground with the Amtrack...
Both sides are spewing misinformation. I don't believe that the issue is about class. More rich people at the hospital will not crowd out the needy. It may bring some additional resources to an ailing department and allow the city to better fund other health related programs.
I live in the effected hood and am all for Hellsacopters in my backyard. Honestly, I would prefer that the property values dropped a bit. Maybe then I could buy a motherfucking house in this bourgeouise, espresso-shop like mushrooms popping candyland. BTW, the art certainly ain't gorrila, it is just bad.
*sigh*
One of the joys of living in San Francisco where anything, everything, will be legislated to death. I dont even know why we are talking about the usefulness of a helicopter pad in a city prone to earthquakes.
Our democratic process is severely broken. Blocking any proposal is seen as "progress"
The neighbor who complains and initiates the review process is considered a hero.
In the meantime, some people may have lost their lives in traffic en route to the hospital because some white middle class boomer has forgotten he lives in a city.
instead of rants and misinformation, how about actual info from SFGH?
such as:
number of helicopter flights planned if the helipad is approved: 693.
how many of them would actually be emergencies: 53.
that's what SFGH told the Potrero View in november 06.
that's a heckuva lot of NON-emergency flights.
(and that's where the money is, jon.)
here's some more info:
number of helipads that already exist in the City: 6.
how many are unused, due to a) crashes or b) neighborhood opposition: 6.
so, why do SFGH neighbors have to put up with a helipad, when no one else in the city will?
maybe you should look into this issue a little less superficially, jon.
Does every neighborhood in San Francisco have a level one trauma center? No? Funny that. I wonder Tony, who was there first ? Your family or SFGH? Who will be in SF longer - SFGH? or you ?
Also, could you explain to me how you know the exact amount of emergency flights that will occur in the FUTURE? Or is it that they would be approved for up to 693 flights and the average would be 53.
It is so tiring to see the whining of entitled landowners in San Francisco. If you were to believe the stats posted by the luddites at stopthehelipad.org - you'd think helicopters were falling out of the sky every few minutes just hoping to land on poor unsuspecting city dwellers.
ahh, craeg, why do you hate city residents so much? and by the way, i'm not a landowner, let alone an 'entitled' one. but hey, thanks for the stereotype.
the info on the number of flights and emergencies comes from SFGH. you got a problem with the numbers, take it up with them.
and about city dwellers, check this out from the SFGH website:
'The Mission of San Francisco General Hospital is to deliver humanistic, cost-effective, and culturally competent health services to the residents of the City and County of San Francisco.'
how many helicopter flights would be used for emergencies within San Francisco? ZERO. ambulance trips for every one of them.
so here we have San Francisco's public hospital pushing a helipad ... ... for the benefit of private hospital transfers that don't serve San Franciscans. (unless they're lucky enough to get hurt out of town.) why are they spending any time at all on this boondoggle that doesn't advance their mission?
The only level one trauma center in the entire state without a helipad,enough said. Hospitals are for treating all people not just the local populace. If there was a catastrophe in Berkeley, I would have absolutely have no problem with the wounded people being treated at SFGH. It sure sounds like Tony would slam the door in their face. Provincial.
i'm totally certain that in a catastrophe - in berkeley or anywhere - any and all helipads in the City would be used if needed, including the UCSF and Davies Medical Center helipads and the medical transport helipads at crissy field, pier 32 and pier 94.
and none of this is counting the helipad in the works at the new UCSF hospital at mission bay.
so there are plenty of City helipads to serve a 'catastrophe in berkeley' - and lots of quality hospitals to go to, including SFGH. so no, that is not enough reason to build yet another one that WON'T serve the city at a hospital that has a stated mission to be a public hospital for san francisco. if you have a problem with SFGH's mission, take it up with the city's department of public health, not me.
A hospital is for helping people, and SFGH is the only trauma center in the city. Put down your petty greivances with sound, or whatever it is and think about other people who need HELP. Who cares if they're from outside San Francisco, or being transferred from a private hospital. The public well being comes before your sellfish "needs." What if it were you, whos life depended on a fast helicopter ride to SF general? And also, trying to predict the number of "emergency" flights is stupid, and what difference does it make if it's anemergency or not. Only trauma center in CA without a hellipad? And in one of the largest an most important cities? Let the hellicopters come. It's a goddamn hospital. Put up with it.
it's hard to see what is more out of control in this thread:
- romanticized fantasies of emergencies requiring helicopter flights to SFGH (ignoring other closer hospitals, faster modes of transport, and evidence that helicopter rides don't save lives) used as justification for a helipad that SFGH admits they want for NON-emergency uses,
or
- hatred of city residents asking that their city tax dollars go to support a public hospital's efforts to serve city residents instead of boondoggle helipad schemes.
apparently, some folks don't care how the city spends their tax dollars. and they think the best reason to build a helipad is because it pisses off the neighbors.
that makes for good ranting, but it's an idiotic way to discuss public policy.
There is no place near my home in S.F. where a helicopter could land in order to pick me up.
It's the only Level One trauma center in the country without a helipad.
These NIMBYs have blood on their hands already
Thankfully the SFGH doesnt have to ask Tony everytime they want to do something. I sincerely believe that some citizens in this City relish the role of "mother may I"
There is no doubt in my mind that in an earthquake there is no faster mode of transit in SF than helicopter. All this talk of whether or not the hospital will serve san franciscans is moot and very small minded.
Are you sure Tony is not in charge? See below:
"How the neighborhood can better serve their [patients?, City of S.F.?] needs"? Maybe by sitting down and shutting up?
Tony Kelly, President of the Potrero Boosters Neighborhood Association, doesn’t accept the disaster rationale. “I can speak specifically to the lack of straight talk from the hospital…[which] has poisoned their relationship with the neighborhood.” Kelly continued, “I would love to have a serious conversation with the hospital about how the neighborhood can better serve their operations. But if the helipad is about improving their revenue stream, they need to say so. Only then can we have an honest discussion about it, instead of talking about the issue as if it’s only about addressing emergencies.”
We've heard from the lawyers (self-appointed or actual) on the best way to micromanage trauma physicians, now lets hear from doctors:
"As part of the Health Commission’s approval of the citywide trauma plan in 2001, a helipad was planned to be constructed at SFGH. In light of what happened in New Orleans following Hurricane Katrina, the medical staff believes it is essential that we build the helipad and upgrade the trauma center. In the case of a major disaster and the bridges are not passable, we will need to move patients rapidly. Air medical access would help ensure that our citizens are cared for promptly and moved swiftly in and out of the facility.
This is a citywide issue for all the people in the San Francisco. Rapid treatment saves lives on a daily basis. We speak of the “golden hour” in trauma. This means that the first 60 minutes are essential to ensuring an excellent outcome after severe injury. San Francisco General Hospital is the only trauma hospital in a major city in the United States that does not have air medical access."
apparently, some folks don't care how the city spends their tax dollars. and they think the best reason to build a helipad is because it pisses off the neighbors.
that makes for good ranting, but it's an idiotic way to discuss public policy.
Outted. How awesome is that! Chubby you rock!
The reason to build the helipad is to allow choppers to land at SFGH.
It remains to be seen how many neighbors these lifeflights will "piss off". In any event, irritating people is not the reason for the helipad. Why not try allowing choppers to land on the roof for a test period and see how things work out?
One person or a small group can tie projects up for years. This is just like the dood who sued the city over its bicycle plan.
Anyway, the helipad is inevitable - the only question is how many lives will be lost and how many years it will take before the City gets it up and running.
I will add that there are advanced hospitals in New York that don't have pads. But they do have a nearby heliport.
Also, there is nothing wrong with listening to the neighbors. It's when a small minority of them feel that their minor concerns outweigh all other concerns is when things get farcical.
Thank god for the choppers!
Bring them the fuck in right now. Not only will they slow down rampant gentrification and help make my neighborhood more affordable and diverse, I want to relive all my childhood hours (years) spent watching M*A*S*H reruns. All we need now are minefields... toxic waste would help, too.
Farcical community outcry is what San Francisco is all about. We should use the farce... er, embrace the farce. If it weren't for the farcical minority we wouldn't have Fox News.
again:
number of helipads that already exist in the City: 6.
how many are unused, due to a) crashes or b) neighborhood opposition: 6.
so, neighborhood opposition is a significant thing when it comes to helipads. crashes are, too.
First of all, if the immediate neighbors around SFGH voted on this issue, the helipad would win. Is there a small but vocal group that opposes the helipad? Yes. Is this opposition signif? Obviously.
Ideally, UCSF and Davies would have operating helipads as well. But they aren't Level One trauma centers. Potrero will just have to take one for the team on this one.
No one doubts the helipad will save lives. No one doubts almost all the neighbors would prefer not to be bothered by the noise. The question is how you balance these things. That's why most Potrerans favor the helipad, even though they don't relish the noise. That's a mature attitude right there.
Perhaps the unelected, self-appointed crusaders could learn from that?
chub, your mindreading skills are impressive when you imagine what 'most Potrerans' think.
and it's so convenient that your mindreading matches your opinions, and contradicts what 'Potrerans' have said publicly! like i said, impressive.
your mindreading is only matched by your double standard, where Potrero Hill has to 'take one for the team' ... ... after already taking plenty for the team on power plants, cement companies, freeways, nightclubs, truck routes, wastewater and sewage treatment, asthma in children, etc, etc, etc.
thanks for volunteering Potrero Hill yet again for something no one else in the City wants in their backyard.
Most Potrerans haven't spoken publicy on this issue. A vocal, self-appointed, unelected minority attends meetings and posts to websites.
Perhaps SFGH should just close down? I'm sure some people in Potrero would like that.
Some people should consider moving to the countryside. No nightclubs or noisy choppers to disturb the sleepy residents. !Que bueno!
chub, you are building straw men.
'most Potrerans' haven't spoken publicly, but have ANY spoken in favor of the helipad? not many, if any.
and no, i haven't heard of anyone wanting SFGH to close down. try to stick to the issue, thanks.
speaking of the issue, how about this compromise?
- let SFGH build the helipad,
- BUT they can ONLY use it for life-saving emergencies.
given your arguments in this thread, that should be ok with you.
do you think such a compromise is ok with SFGH?
Why not just erect an airtight hermetically sealed bubble for all the SF nrighbors who can't possibly stand ANYTHING to get in the way of their peaceful contemplation?! I hear the Millennium Dome is for sale.
I say yes helipad. Lots of helipads. With neighborhoods chosen in order of preciousness. After Potrero Hill, maybe Telegraph?
p.s. WHO in their right mind would EVER choose SFGH for anything but the direst of emergencies? This ain't exactly the Mayo Clinic.
It would be trivial to cut and paste entries from the web of people who claim to live in the area and also claim to favor the pad. It would be hard to verify veracity, so that's sort of pointless.
SFGH should be able to build it and use it however they darn well please. That's my opinion after being exposed to this, the mother of all NIMBY issues. Perhaps SFGH will allow rich doctors to commute in on a daily basis from Marin or institute a "millionaire patients only" policy. Until that occurs, SFGH has my backing.
As far as that pad and life-saving flights is concerned, Build It and They Will Come.
chub,
wanna know something funny?
i can make a better argument in favor of the helipad than you can.
and i have, in the past - only to be voted down by a neighborhood full of helipad opponents.
The arguments for and against the helipad have already been considered by the medical professionals involved. Don't you get that? It's not like the concerns of some of the local residents should be paramount over everybody elses'.
You should change the name of your group to support the helipad, if that's how you feel.
You are free to pressure weak-willed politicos as long as you can but the more publicity you get, the weaker the anti-pad people get. Just as with the S.F. bike plan, an EIR will come out and then we'll get back on track.
in a democracy, with a public hospital, supported by taxes on city residents, it takes more than the 'medical professionals involved' to determine appropriate land uses.
check the scoreboard: NO HELIPAD ANYWHERE IN THE CITY has neighborhood support. so why are you so intent on bullying this particular neighborhood?
it sure sounds like you want YOUR concerns to be 'paramount over everyone else's.'
"Why bully this particualr neighborhood?"
"thanks for volunteering Potrero Hill yet again for something no one else in the City wants in their backyard."
Are you kidding? No one is bullying, and no one is "volunteering" Potrero Hill to host undesirtable shit. SF general Hospital is LOCATED in Potrero Hill, THAT'S why there is going to be a helipad there. It's quite simple. You poor Potrero citizens are not being victimized. Deal with it, or move.
"Deal with it, or move."
oh, but no one is bullying, of course not. no way.
1 - Fact: The main difference between a Level 1 Trauma Center and a Level 2 Trauma Center is that a Level 1 is a teaching hospital. The state definition of a Level 1 Trauma Center does not include the requirement of a helipad. Other than teaching, a Level 2 Trauma Center offers the same level of care. One might argue that you're better off at a Level 2 because a Level 1 is a teaching hospital.
2 - Fact: An average of 21% of all ambulances are diverted to other hospital from SFGH due to overcrowding. I'm not sure how serving non-residence over residents in a continuously overcrowed atmosphere is in line with the Hospital's mission or serves tax payers and under-insured residents.
3 - Fact: A helipad for the UCSF hospital 1.5 miles away from SFGH has already been approved. Why do we need another helipad? Helicopter flights are not regulated like an airport. In airplane terms this is the very definition of 'near miss', never mind the fact that these helicopters will be flying in pitch dark and through San Francisco's famous foggy weather.
4 - Fact: The occupation death rate per 100,000 per year for air medical crew is 22% higher than all other workers combined. That's just the crew - never mind the passengers.
Arguments?
Stophelipad.com
wow, chubs, you think nimbys have blood on their hands, wait until a SFGH's helicopter wipes out 2 cities blocks in your hood.
everyone on this discussion board seems to be giddy at the thought of diminishing property values. what about the consequences of schools in the affected neighborhoods who will be subject to deafening noise and air pollution so that some presential candidate can land in the city via helipad.
if you think the helipad is some noble proposal to rescue critial ill, you are really misinformed.
I had insurance and I went to the SF General with meningitis and was told it would be an 8 hour wait. With rich insured people flying in from other hospitals with a broken leg, my wait would probably have been 16 hours. Thankfully I had the common sense and the choice of going to a private hospital. what about san franciscans who don't have a choice and rely on SFGH to save their lives?
Some more facts:
5- Fact: Between 2000 and 2005 10% of all medical helicopters in the US crashed. Medical helicopters are the most dangers means of transportation second only to military helicopters.
Check out this detailed safety information: http://stophelipad.com/safety.shtml
The Neighbors of SFGH are having a community fundraiser to help fight the helipad: http://stophelipad.com/fundraiser.shtml
WHEN: Sunday November 9th from 6:00 to 8:00 PM
WHERE: Potrero Hill Neighborhood House, 953 De Haro St
Meet your neighbors. Get the latest updates on SF General’s Helipad Plans. Learn how the Helipad will affect you.
Plan to bid on fun and valuable items from restaurants to art to professional services.
Please pass on the word and help the effort by personally inviting only 4 of your friends or neighbors to this event.
If you would like to donate an item or a service for the auction, or have a friend or family member who would like to donate you can let us know by contacting us through this website with the details of your donation, or phoning or faxing us at 415-738-7733.
If you are unable to attend you can always donate at http://stophelipad.com/donate.shtml