Review: Comedy Death-Ray at SketchFest

David, after a somewhat disjointed defense of your position (which you had to make, of course--I mean, who can stand by while being called a bigot?), you prove the critique's point with your parting shot--suggesting that all Mormons must be lazy minded to hold their particular set of beliefs. That's bigotry at its core.

I've gotta say, this would've surprised me a few years ago, but after that stupid, interminable "feud" Cross attempted to perpetrate on Larry the Cable Guy, I'm not--not by what Emily describes, nor by Cross's childish, interminable response. (how about: "Sorry you didn't like the show--some of my best friends are Mormon and they make just the best muffins. xoxo, dc") David--why all the bitterness?

I just read your review and I would like to address a number of things that I find to be either disingenuous or just plain wrong (sometimes mildly irresponsible, and other times so wrong it borders on libel). I won’t get into who had what kind of set and argue about quantifying laughs and then the quality of said laughs but I take great issue with your calling me a bigot. You call me a bigot and then fail to represent truthfully not only what I said, but ignored the context in which I said it. Two very important tools in comedy. And keep in mind that the set was taped. I have it all on tape. Every word, every laugh, every pause, every quiet moment. Everything. And Emily, if that was “the most blatant display of bigotry you’ve ever witnessed in person”, then you have lived a charmed life for sure. I think you are being hyperbolic and overdramatic to say the least. While it’s true that I made fun of Mormons and their beliefs, you completely ignored the context in which I did it. The ENTIRE premise of the piece was first prefaced (and this lasted over a minute) by saying that, should I ever choose to run for any kind of office, that, no matter how many good ideas I might have to improve the quality of everyone’s life or implement a universal health care plan etc, that I could never get elected because I am an atheist. For the simple fact that I don’t believe in God most people wouldn’t vote for me. I then brought up that Mitt Romney, a Mormon, had just announced his candidacy. I then explained that a lot of pundits thought that his prior stance in support of gay marriage might turn voters away. Then I said, “so his support of equal rights for all Americans would be the thing that made people suspicious of him, not his belief that…”and here is where I described the story of Joseph Smith along with side commentary about the angles names sounding like they were members of Sha-Na-Na, and comments about the Freemasons etc. I appreciate your pointing out that there is a difference between making fun of something and attacking it, and that scientists have discovered a fine line between the two, but when you go on to say, “the greatest cultural and religious satire takes the beliefs held by a group of people and spins it to show the comedy inherent in those beliefs.” You imply that I didn’t “spin” it or “show” it. I disagree with you and my tape of the set and the laughs that I was receiving are evidence that the audience (minus some of course) disagreed with you as well. I can’t (nor should I ever) assume that the each audience I ever do that bit in front of is familiar with either, the South Park episode, the Slate article about Romney being Mormon (which I am not familiar with but I would imagine any good journalist might find it to be an interesting subject), or even the basic tenants and history of Mormonism itself. And looking over your review I notice that I did in fact mention everything you cite as being so integral to the South Park episode. To represent on this web site that bit the way you do is damaging if not worse. Emily, you can’t simply reduce everything I said, and it’s obvious (to most, at least) intent to merely being a vitriolic, bigoted soap-box lecture wherein I just say, “This is what Mormons believe, aren’t they fucking idiots?”. That is being either purposefully dishonest or at the very least, lazy and irresponsible. In addition, your numerous references to how poorly I was received seem put in there to bolster your position. This just wasn’t the case. Again, the set and entire evening were taped. I have the proof on tape. You have your clearly biased memory of events, which do not match reality. Having said all that, I do think it’s astoundingly stupid and lazy to believe in Mormonism given it and it’s founder’s history.

Wow, just as I was about to leave a comment about that ricoculous review, what do I find but one left by none other than Mr. Cross himself. And here I thought the intarwebs were too vast to be at all effective in disseminating valuable ideas. I mean, they're probably still ineffective at inspiring thought, but at least it's an ass-load of ineffectuality. Anywho, just wanted to say that this is the type of commentary that gets people in San Francisco pigeon-holed. I hate this type of circumlocutionary judgement. If you find it acceptable to mock a religion in musical form, then what makes it unacceptable to mock it in a succinct sentence? Is the mockery deemed tolerable in your twisted neo-liberal mind only if it seems like you don't actually feel that way about it, but were just being "silly"? If you actually think the religion is ridiculous, why be coy? I'm not afraid to say I think most religions are absurd, and I find that an easy thought to think because I know that most of the followers of those religions believe I'm going to hell for being an atheist--and they haven't even heard any of my awesome theories! The most ridiculous thing about our society, in my mind, is the fact that we allow ourselves to be offended. But I guess that's in the same vein for my reasoning for most religion being ridiculous. I just don't see how anyone can take themselves so seriously. And that is why America and SF, in particular, is hella gay.

Mormonism *is* jaw-droppingly ridiculous, though. you-have-got-to-be-kidding-me ridiculous.

Methinks the comedian doth protest too much.

You're right though, DC, those Mormons are weird. Most of us don't understand what they believe or why they believe it. And it bugs us. Hey! I know! Why don't we round them up, throw them into water and see if they float?

I'll bet a tin of Mormon muffins that Emily has never heard nor seen DC's stand up before- not ever.

What the hell is "awkward comedy"?

jeez SFist, pull your head out of your ass.

I'm sure you have it all on tape, and I'm sure we could get out the "laugh-o-meter" to see who REALLY got the most laughs and whether DC was truly well-received or not. Pointless. What's not pointless is what seems to be an objective (clearly Emily is a fan and went into the night expecting a good performance) review of a show that lacked DC's usual comedic genius and, in truth, provided an illustrative example of webster's definition of "bigot": a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance. Of course, you have the right (?) to be a bigot or to act bigoted, but- Wow, substitute "Jewish" or "Muslim" into some of those comments, and you've landed yourself a front-page spot on CNN, DC.

I know this might fly against -ist policy, but they might consider getting people who know what they are talking about to write about events.

And no deep knowledge is needed. Just be able to be at an event and actually report on what is actually happening.

I like to call that skill: Reporting™.

I would strongly suggest that SFist and the whole -ist empire starting thinking about what the concept of reporting is. And how they need to stick to this crazy thing called "facts" when reporting on something.

Are you trying to say there is no heaven's chimney, and there is no razzleberry waterfall? Bigots!

And I don't know who "Michael Cross" is, but what the hey, he rules too!

You're missing the point. Jewish and Muslim beliefs aren't predicated on a patently ridiculous story. Was what DC said an example of bigotry? Maybe. But then again most comedy is if you think about it that way. One need look no further than the Book of Mormon to find an example of real-world bigotry, wherein anyone having brown skin is being punished by God for being evil, and is less human than their white counterparts. Not to mention their horrendous treatment of women, and the institution of polygamy. I reserve little sympathy for anyone whose religion has been a bastion of intolerance and insanity since its inception.

Emily, a couple of friendly pieces of advice.

-be sure to avoid George Carlin's act whenever he's in town.

-don't ever, ever watch "Chappelle's Show".

This reminds me why I hate the -ist websites. So many dour and humorless children masquerading as journalists. Just because you suffer from comic dermographia doesn't mean he's a bigot. Strong words to throw around.

Way to drop the MLK reference, too. HIGH GROUND.

I was at the show. While it wasn't the funniest stuff I have ever heard David Cross do, that's not a crime. And it certainly didn't even begin to approach the level of pointless unfunny offensiveness to differences in gender/race/religion/creed that you typically hear at a club or on comedy central. To me, it sounded like global climate change was making DC a little depressed about the state of the nation and he got soap-boxy. he even acknowledged as much -- after yet another uneasy laugh from the audience he said something to the effect of "i know, i know, who invited captain bringdown?" then he went on to do a funny bit about his dog inadvertently jacking him off. (I think that might be what emily meant by "awkward comedy".) Great stuff!

I'll echo what Katie said above. I also was at the show, and enjoyed it. David Cross's set was certainly the most acerbic, and I found it very funny. The audience had more uneasy laughs during his set than anyone elses, but I didn't think they were unreceptive. The material was supposed to make us uncomfortable.

I'm not quite sure what he accomplishes by waving around a possible libel suit, if that's really David Cross. But when I read Emily's review I thought to myself that she didn't mention that the mormonism bit was done in the context of atheists not being considered capable of holding office in this country, while theists with very strange beliefs somehow are.

Comedians aren't supposed to make us all feel comfortable. Bill Hicks and Lenny Bruce were all about the pointed rant.

i'm with you, molly. emily attended the show, thought DC crossed some lines, and has a right to say so. it doesnt mean that she doesn't have a sense of humor. She isn't calling for a ban on DC or all stand-up or anything ridiculous. She is just publishing an opinion about some things that she didn't find funny. Opinion. So what?

I agree that the heart of observational comedy is in pointing out the lunacy in everyday things. We just need to be careful not to use "comedy" as a shield to say whatever you want. It's ok to say mormonism is dumb. And make fun of it. And the dumb things you see mormons do. AS SOON as you say ANY"ONE" who believes X is dumb.. that's bigotry. Saying that a person's belief system lacks any internal logic, is bigotted. I think that is all Emily is trying to say here.

Oh please. The minute comics aren't allowed to point out giant hulking flaws in religious dogma, then we're all in a lot of trouble..

If your religion is the universal truth you say it is, then what's to defend? When's the last time you heard about a bunch of particle physicists writing letters demanding that nobody be allowed to publicly question string theory..

Please revel in your correctness and let we the unenlightened masses writhe in our confusion.

Dear god SF, relax. Emily's allowed to express her opinon about an event as she remembers it, and it's fucking great that David Cross responded. Didn't he say all that needed to be said? No need to attack the entire -ist network. But thanks for the love.

I don't think that this review is trying to tell us that comics can't point out flaws in religious dogma. It is not saying, "make fun of anything else you want, just leave those mormons alone." it is just what emily said - showing why something is ridiculous can be comedy, but telling you it's dumb is more of a soap-box lecture. that applies to mormonism or any other ism.

"not the kind of bit you'd expect from a talk radio show host."

Speaking on behalf of all radio hosts, may I say: WTF??

This may be the most blatant case of bigotry I've ever seen.

I know lots of funny Mormons.

They believe in respecting the beliefs of others, something all of you could stand to learn. If you don't agree, that's fine. And if you think being a Mormon is "lazy", well, that's just stupid in itself. Mormons are some of the most hardworking people I've ever met.

http://gawker.com/news/david-cross/david-cross-has-no-big-love-for-sfist-reviewer-229300.php

I speak for everyone when I say you are all a bunch of sissy-pantsed babies.

"You're a bigot."

"You didn't give the full detail of my act, so I'm thinking that may be libelous."

"I don't know how to run spell check."

"I'll use a bunch of big words in my comment so that everyone will think I'm smart."

You all suck.

Yours truly,
David C. Ross

"the funny David on this thread"

As someone who has covered music professionally in established media before moving to blogs I would have loved the instant feedback from one of the artists I slammed. That would've been great..sigh.

Anyway, I think the other point so far not mentioned is the fact that David's stand-up isn't exactly the same as the scripted comedy he did on TV. Have you heard his albums? Might be good background before reviewing his new tour/act.

He has an awkward delivery, and in the truest sense he's not really telling jokes with standard punchlines. That's pretty much what sets him apart/makes him unique. Just reading the review I can imagine the exact delivery of the "Isn't that dumb?" punchline because I've heard him do that with other material.

Also, interesting to note all the Sketchfest ads on the SFist site...

I was a little surprised to see the review of the Comedy Death Jam that referred to David Cross as a bigot (a loaded term on MLKjr day or any day). I was at the show at Cobbs on Monday and I had a completely different experience. One of the great things about David Cross' comedy is that it is funny, but it is also informed, you aren't going to find tired, old school 1-2-3 punch jokes or random commentary about the weather or rather pointless observations. He makes a point of knowing what's going on in popular culture and then commenting on the absurdities and inconsistencies that exist. Often, he touches on (smacks down, roughs up) politics. His comments about Mormonism were placed in the context of how crazy it is that someone that is pro-gay marriage would not have a chance to be president due to public bias, but his background of Mormonism and its tenets (and everything he said was fact, look it up) wouldn't have any bearing at all. I was in the audience that night and I have to agree with Mr. Cross, there were no awkward silences or offended boos or complaints that would give the impression, even vaguely, that the vast majority of the audience didn't understand the greater comment he was making and enjoy it thoroughly. Comedy isn't always safe and putting something out there that is based in truth that might interest someone in learning more while appealing to a politically literate, educated audience is a far cry from bigotry. 'Nuff said.

I love that everyone is defending David's act as brilliant and edgy. Going over well-trodden ground on Mormonism and then grouping all 12-million of the followers calling them "stupid" sounds amazingly avant garde. David Cross, a true pioneer.

Hey, what about when DC said he hoped his dog would fall down a flight of stairs? How come there aren't throngs of PETA-heads and yuppies with "Dog is my co-pilot," bumper stickers hurling critical epithets? I'm disgusted in all of you.

(In all seriousness though, good set!)

San Francisco is not politically correct, dammit!! We understand irony and respect people's opinions, really we do.

Oh yeah, the line from my above comment was in response to today's Gawker thread about this story.

One of the great things about David Cross' comedy is that it is funny, but it is also informed, you aren't going to find tired, old school 1-2-3 punch jokes or random commentary about the weather or rather pointless observations. [...] His comments about Mormonism were placed in the context of how crazy it is that someone that is pro-gay marriage would not have a chance to be president due to public bias. [...] Comedy isn't always safe [...]

You want "astoundingly stupid and lazy?" Look at many of the comments here, from Cross's verbose, barely-articulate rant on down. There is plenty of smug contempt to go around for Mormons and Mormon beliefs here, but virtually no evidence of anything better than a vulgar caricature of what Mormons actually believe and why.

The irony of Cross getting all worked up about the reviewer's description of a stand-up routine that involved him playing fast and loose with facts regarding religious beliefs millions take quite seriously is rich.

All religions make hard to believe claims. It doesn't bother me that you don't believe the claims my religion makes (I am Mormon and damn proud of it. And I sincerely doubt that many commenters here are more intelligent or less lazy than I am. Surely a braying twit like Cross doesn't have anything on me intellectually.) But why the venom? Why the leap from "I don't believe that" to "only lazy idiots believe that?" Perhaps lazy idiots can only muster contempt for things they don't understand.

"Surely a braying twit like Cross doesn't have anything on me intellectually."

:) ..Surely.

J.S.Jr.: If you are offering free copy editing, post no.1 could use some work.

And please do elaborate regarding your apparent issue with my understanding of the concept of irony.

You're absolutely right. Going in front of a San Francisco comedy club audience and doing a lecture against an institutionalized religion and in favor of gay marriage is f'ing hardcore!

This is why everyone hates San Francisco. The idea that the city as a whole can be SO progressive and yet so intolerant of any idea that isn't trumpeted on public radio at the same time is not only hypocritical but fucking asinine. Pick a side, SFisters, are you the bastion of tolerance you like to think you are or are you completely intolerant of anything that pokes fun at religion or any other mass accepted nonsense?

I am a Mormon and once fan of David Cross. It is sad that he, as do most of you, show such a strong view on something you barely seem to understand.

I like David Cross a great deal, ocassional pomposity notwithstanding. I've neither seen nor heard his Mormon bit, but I can be fairly sure that it's both hilarious, intelligent and inciteful.

Why? Because I have seen the supposedly "funnier" Mormon episode of South Park, which was - like so much of Parker and Stone's output - a snoozefest of monumental proportions. It really had no viewpoint, few actual jokes other than reciting the actual backgound of Mormonism and certainly not much in the way of songs. Anyone who praises that has to not know humor even if they married it, raised a family with it and then divorced it in acrimony.

Oh, and David? That's "tenets". Nobody's living in the religion, as it were.

As a believing Mormon who plans on voting for Barak Obama, let me just say that your perception of my religion is reductive at best.
First Black Mormon: Elijah Abel, baptised in 1832--two years after the Church was organized. (Many African Americans came west with the first Mormon pioneers--some as slaves, others freeborn.) That's not to imply that the LDS history is not tainted with racialist policies. It is, and that's a shameful thing which MANY of us are trying to heal. (I am a member of a group formed in 1971 to support Mormons of African descent.)
Joseph Smith's history? Complex and difficult. If you really want to understand who he was, I recommend Richard Bushman's book _Rough Stone Rolling_. He confronts all of the skeletons in the closet but does so without creating straw men in place of the ugly bones.

"..."Can you believe how stupid these Mormons are?" Baddum-chee!..."

Is that the correct spelling of "Baddum-chee!" ?
I would have gone with something more like ba-DUM...chee

comments?

My work is done here.
Thank you,
Goodnight.

My family left Denmark many generations ago to escape religious persecution. They were Mormons. Denmark had far far less Mormons than America at the time so the persecution was much worse than in America. They came to America and some of them lost their lives in a massacre of the Mormons. And so some of them moved to Canada to escape this further persecution. Keeping this in mind, the Mormon belief system is un-fucking-believably stupid, much like most people's personal sphere of religious nutquackery. At it's core, Bigotry is about superficiality. About judging things before really getting to know them. The Mormons I have met have mostly been very friendly, and that's great. Their belief system works for them. But the fact that it works for them doesn't make it not really really stupid. Calling David Cross a bigot is as disingenuous is calling someone a racist for saying that African-Americans may tend to have skin that is darker than Caucasians. However after reading through these comments the real point of this is that your "opinion" of how David was received is not an "opinion", it's a deliberate mis-statement of objective fact. A lie. You are a liar and in a perfect world you should be fired and sued. But from what I've seen, David Cross is anything but unreasonable, and I'm sure that honour, if you actually have any, would be satisfied by a retraction and an apology.

I think all of you are missing the comic genius of David Cross - obviously he and Emily are working together, with Emily playing the straight man. She is obviously on his payroll. Come on- no comic is ever going to threaten a reviewer with libel, or try to explain his jokes, or defend his lack of funniness. Cross has outdistanced Andy Kaufman by a light year- by reinventing his persona as an unfunny comic, desperately worried that an obscure review on the web will seriously damage his career.

Do you really think that somebody of Cross's stature would care if somebody thought his routine was banal? His repeated mantra- "I have the tapes" is obviously referring to Richard Nixon, and I laughed my head off at his claim to "prove" through evidence or perhaps court trial that he is indeed "funny".

By being unfunny - with these mock defenses of his routine, the fake contrition, and (can we guess) his impending announcement of rehab (ala Michael Richards), Cross has taken humor to a new level.

Here on the web, he is mocking all of you, and I find it hilarious. No comic is so stupid as to have an unfunny string of religious slurs, or to attack reviewer opinions of his bigoted routine. I find his repeated postings, starting with self-righteous hyperventilation at having his routine criticized, and then increasingly becoming sober in his repeated postings as stunningly humorous.

Cross has forged a new frontier by presenting his new persona as an unfunny, bigoted comic to a San Francisco audience. Cross is absolutely at his comic best when he is not funny at all, and obviously Emily is in on the gag. Kudos, David, you fooled them all.

Is that the correct spelling of "Baddum-chee!" ?
I would have gone with something more like ba-DUM...chee

I've always seen it as ching, not chee, though I can see an argument for "ch" without the "ing" depending on how open or closed the hi-hat cymbal is, the more closed it is it would be more like a "ch," whereas if it were more open it would have more of a ring, like "ching." "Chee" is a variant I have not heard, but if one believes in "chee," I respect that belief and don't think it's stupid.

David Cross you are one funny man - and come on people if you think he is a bigot then you haven't met any.

Didn't make the show but this line just cracked me up "side commentary about the angles names sounding like they were members of Sha-Na-Na, and comments about the Freemasons etc." HA!

Quoting Just Sayin' (comment #26):
"You're missing the point. Jewish and Muslim beliefs aren't predicated on a patently ridiculous story..."

Apparently Mormon's have to deal with bigotry and ignorance on these issues. Sad for them. If you know anything about religious history Just Sayin, then you'd realize that your comments about Mormonism are both nonfactual and inaccurate. The Islamic Prophet Muhammad had a very similar story to Joseph Smith, both being visionaries, both claiming to have seen and conversed with angels, both claiming that God's message had been corrupted and both claiming to have received revelation as to the correct order of God's will.

"One need look no further than the Book of Mormon to find an example of real-world bigotry, wherein anyone having brown skin is being punished by God for being evil, and is less human than their white counterparts."

It is a fabrication that "anyone having brown skin is being punished by God..." in actuality Mormons believe that persons of Indian decent who are indigenous to the American continent are chosen people of God, promised to have all the blessings of Abraham restored to them through God's latter-day prophets (i.e. Joseph Smith).

"Not to mention their horrendous treatment of women and the institution of polygamy..."

Have you ever picked up a history book in your life? Hindu's practiced polygamy anciently, Jews practiced polygamy including such notable figures as: Moses, Abraham and Jacob, certain forms of Buddhism practices forms of polygamy today (actually called consorts). Many Christian religions, other than Mormonism, have at one time or another practiced polygamy including Lutherans (authorized by Martin Luther), many Islamic cultures still practice polygamy today, and then there are the Mormons... Who everyone knows practiced polygamy and has since outlawed and forbid it within the religion. Going to the length of excommunicating any who attempts to practice it, yet for some reason American society persists in this falsified belief that polygamy began and ended with the Mormons. Your ignorance is exceeded only by your arrogance in revealing it to the world, Just Sayin'. But really, you ought to find a Mormon woman sometime and ask her yourself if she feels as grossly mistreated as you seem to believe they all are.

Setting aside his stand-up performance from earlier this week, David Cross has, by definition, acted as a bigot with his comments on this blog alone. Molly had it right in her comment (#18) substitute another religion’s name into the Mormon slot with those same comments, it becomes headline news, and David Cross never lands another decent job in his life. That’s because our society won’t tolerate intolerance… unless of course it’s directed at the Mormons.

"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."
-Martin Luther King, Jr.-

Bigotry is not the self held opinion that someone else's beliefs are stupid, it's treating that person differently because of their beliefs.
In the same spirit, if he had stood up and started to talk about how some people don't think global warming is caused by mans introduction of green house gasses are all stupid for not believing in scientific evinced to the contrary, you would have applauded, not criticized or thrown out hot button words like "bigot"

I highly doubt that David would treat anyone different simply because they are of a certain mindset on some subjects.

Emily, there is another Southpark episode that I enjoyed very much. It involved a large number of hybrid cars and a very large "smug" cloud over San Fran. Maybe you should take a look at that one on youtube or set your tivo.

Dave - Keep up the good work, love your stuff man.

I can't imagine anyone will ever read this far into the post, but just in case, here are a few pennies.

I have noticed that as comedians become popular their material gets "worse". This isn't because they are doing too much blow or because they had relied on their failure to be funny, it is because they are popular. Their a meterial, the shit that got them popular, is taxed. They had a li8fe time to work on their first album and then Comedy Death Ray rolls around and what are they gonna do? The bit about 911 again? No. They need something new. Topical. Something they thought up that morning.

Comedy Death Ray and all of the alternative comedy scenes should be looked at as a place to try out material, to get it going. It is a glimpse into the performers process of coming up with new and better stuff.

So if David really was dropping the ball, well that's what you get for only paying 5 bucks for your ticket. He was thinking it out on stage (probably, I wasn't there, but that is what it sounds like)

As for being offended, that's your MO. I would brace yourself for it cause this Mitt Romney joker is going to bring it down on Mormons' collective head like Gallagher to a water mellon. (did that make sense? who cares). It is a bummer to have something sacred to you mocked openly. But that's what comics do. You never hear about the amish rising up and bitching after the same jokes get made about them every week some where.

All that being said, i do not get why people think Mormonism is weirder than any other religion. Actually I do get it, but I think it is an invalid reason. The only reason Mormonism's story seems weird is because it just happened a couple hundred years ago. The idea of an angel coming and giving you rocks and a book and a hat is not even as weird as leading people arou8nd for 40 years in the desert while you talk to bushes or getting your calling from a salamnader and then transcending into heaven whith your horse.

Athiesm is pretty stupid when you look at it to. All human history has done is prove we don't really have a firm grasp on anything yet, yet athiests feel like they have enough info to say without a doubt that there is no god.

I have always liked David Cross's comedy but I remember when I listened to his first CD and there were a few jokes that I found kind of offensive. I walked arou8nd for a few days thinking, "Why did David Cross say that?" and then finally the answer came to me in a dream "Who gives a shit what David Cross thinks?" I hope the same dream visits all offended parties soon.

I also had a dream where I had a foursome with Paul Tompkins and both Hard and Phirm (Chris, why don't you return my calls?) but that's a topic for another self indulgent comment.

Hi,
Thanks Emily for defending the Mormons. I am one. We are a small minority that is attacked regularly.
Casey Jex Smith

"give peace a chance"

100th post. f yeah.

I agree with the South Park treaty on acceptable topics for comedy:

"Either [all religions] are okay to make fun of or none of them are"

brad,
thanks for your comment. being a mormon myself, i'm glad emily was able to call DC on his inappropriate remarks. i don't appreciate being called an f***ing idiot just because my beliefs differ from his. i would never say the same of an atheist, or any particular group of people for that matter. even if you can't understand our beliefs, you should know there's nothing lazy about believing in mormonism. afterall, we're attacked regularly, and sacrifice a lot for our beliefs.

I think that we have all missed DC's point about how we should have a great deal of pity on those poor atheist souls who can never hold public office because religious people won't let them.

I know! What if atheists act like total jerks to religious people, call them idiots, compare them to Holocaust deniers, and arrogantly presume that anyone who believes in religion obviously has no rational bone in their body! That'll set the example of tolerance that atheists so sorely need! It's that kind of openness to dialogue that will finally clear the path for atheists in this country.

Long-time reader, first time poster…

I’m a believing Mormon and I thought I’d throw up a post, for the record, stating that I am not a “f***ing idiot,” “astoundingly stupid and lazy,” (thank-you Mr. Cross) or “batshit crazy.” Neither are most of the Mormons I know (I wish I could say that none are, but hey...).

Apparently many posters think those are requirements for membership in the church. Here’s why I’m Mormon: I am pleased with the person I am becoming, and I owe much of who I am to things I’ve learned in the Mormon church. Joseph Smith’s teachings on acceptance and service are some of the most progressive and beautiful things I’ve ever read. I love the lives of my parents and grandparents, who are active members of the church and very productive members of society. I sincerely believe that I have a personal relationship with God and that my life is better for it. There are things about the church that I don’t quite understand and I take on faith, but damn, I’ve got a lot of evidence in my life that what Joseph Smith started is good and true (however you want to define that).

OHhhh Comedy - you blessed/curesed creature....how you make me llaaaugh!

Wait...this was a "comedy" show - right?

Hey David,

I saw your set at Death Ray Comedy. I think the last comedy set I saw you do at Cobbs with Father Guido was better. You did a bit on the "Proud to be an American" song that I love. But your Monday night performace was fine.

Anyone that knows your humor will know that you are an atheist who rails against forms of religion that seem strange. I particularly like your bit on being considered Jewish no matter what you believe. I see a lot of comedy and you're one of the best. Period.

I wanted to send you an email and don't know you're address. Maybe you'll read it here:

To: David Cross

Subject: Miss American Fido Show Pitch

Hey David,

It was nice meeting you briefly before the Death Ray show at Cobb's Comedy Club on Monday night. Great set at both Match Game and Death Ray. You're the best.

My name is Mark Tyne. I am the Producer and Host of Miss American Fido (www.amfido.com). Miss American Fido is an "open mike" contest to find the worst act in San Francisco.

I am writing to let you know that I have talked to Janet Varney and Cole Stratton, two of the founders of SF Sketchfest about having Miss American Fido become part of the 2008 SF Sketchfest lineup. They both seem interested.

Today, I sent and email to Cole letting him know that I have been videotaping every Miss American Fido show with the goal of pitching the show to be produced on cable or network TV. I am currently in the process of making a promotional dvd to use to pitch the show. I would like to send the three of you a copy of the DVD for your review. If the three of you like it, I wanted to ask if you could get me into contact with executives from HBO, Comedy Central and TBS to make a pitch that they produce the show for TV. I figure that the three of you have enough contacts in the entertainment business that if you like the show, you can introduce me to the people who can get it produced. And when the show is produced for cable, the four of us could make a lot of money from the endeavor.

When you have a moment, if you could email me a mailing address where I can send a promo dvd and treatment for Miss American Fido, it would be me great pleasure to send these materials to you.

Take care and talk to you soon!

Mark Tyne
marktyne1@yahoo.com

I attended the Comedy Death Ray show, and while I understood DC's point during his set, the means he used to support it did nothing to drive his message home. His point was largely lost in his hateful language towards the LDS religion. With each joke his set became less about proving a political point in a humorous way and more about belittling those whose beliefs contradict his own. There was nothing funny, witty, interesting, or unique about it, with proof of this coming from the lack laughter from many in the audience. Next time DC should spend less time putting to memory the history of a religion and more time developing jokes more amusing than a brainless, schoolyard taunt of "f***ing idiot".

I'm gald Mr. Cross wrote in to respond. After reading the context of his routine, I agree with him that his bit was not "bigoted" in the least. I consider the reporter here to be lazy and irresponsible for suggesting the same.

I was a Mormon, now i'm an atheist. I totally agree with the idea that it's ridiculous that as an atheist, I could never be elected, while Romney can, even though he has participated in Mormon temple ceremonies with other believers (dressed in white robes, white floppy hat, green apron) in which he would repeat things like:

-I, [Mitt], covenant that I will never reveal the First Token of the Aaronic Priesthood with its accompanying name, sign and penalty. Rather than do so I would suffer (the right hand, palm down, is now placed near the throat so that the thumb is under the left ear)—my life—(the thumb is now drawn under the jaw-bone and across the throat to the right ear)—to be taken (the hand is now dropped to the side).

There are several such rituals that demonstrated whays in which your "life would be taken" if you revelaed the secrets of the temple cermeony.

http://lds-mormon.com/veilworker/penalty.shtml

Comlete details of temple cermony here:
http://lds-mormon.com/veilworker/endowment.shtml

Oh-- and before any Mormons jump in and say "Not so-- what a crock!". It is 100% true-- i did it myself before the ceremony was changed in 1990:

Here's a summary of the changes to the Mormon temple ceremony in 1990:
http://lds-mormon.com/whytemplechanges.shtml

Oops-- sorry for the double post. I thought my first one didn't go through. I guess it just takes a while. I hated having to type is all out again-- oh well!

Mark Tyne, comment whoring is ugly. As is not knowing the difference between "your" and "you're".

This review seems to have a clumsy agenda of its own, since a reviewer should be concerned with the whole performance and not just cherry pick the points and quotes with which the reviewer disagrees.

You've pretty much asked to be fired with this review. If there is a next time, leave your preconceptions at home and pay attention to the ENTIRE performance.

Don't be a mutt.

This has been an interesting read!

Disclosure: about 12 years ago, the message of the The Book of Mormon -- Christ's divinity and atonement -- saved my life and then it healed my soul.

As has been noted earlier, we members of this Church have experienced persecutions in the past: early mobbings and massacres, murder of our Prophet, forced expulsion from the country leading to trek to Utah. Some of my ancestry is buried along the trail. Reading their journals teaches me much of faith, perserverance, forgiveness, and maintaining good humor in the face of adversity.

These experiences and modern, milder counterparts (2 years as a missionary is no vacation) lead us to question our beliefs and to find answers. This isn't a religion that can be faked for long and the answer from God to personal prayer is ncecessary for the changes in nature that are required -- hence our phrase that you can't live on borrowed light. They also have brought a self-reliant pragmatism to our culture as well as a sustaining sense of humor. This last is why comments like DC's, even if disagreeable, aren't seen as persecution. We've seen persecution and his act isn't it.

About a century ago, so many false reports about us were coming out of Salt Lake that the First Presidency published “An Address to the World” to answer them. The Ministerial Association of SLC then published their review of that Address. B. H. Roberts then answered their review in a church conference in 1907 M.I.A. In it, he shows how to observe humourously note inconsistencies in religious beliefs, as when he contrasts modern Christian preachers' teachings of Christ's birth to a mother without a father with their belief that we have a heavenly Father but no Mother (LDS belief includes Heavenly parents for us and that Christ is the Son of God). Similar to DC, he comments on this, "Sometimes, I wonder what is the matter with you gentlemen."

I include below a favorite paragraph from his response. I particularly enjoy his phrasing in the last five sentences (“But our experience…).

“These gentlemen reviewers [or DC] express two fears. One is that they will be charged, because of issuing this review, with misrepresentation. Well, I don't wonder at that, and I think we have proven that you have misrepresented. But they also fear that we will charge them with persecution. Gentlemen, we acquit you of the intention of persecution. When the Revs. Phineas Ewing, Dixon, Cavanaugh, Hunter, Bogart, Isaac McCoy, Riley, Pixley, Woods and others carried on an agitation in Missouri against "Mormonism" and the "Mormons" that resulted in burning hundreds of our homes and driving our people—including women and children, remember—to bivouac out in the wilderness at an inclement season of the year; when the mob incited by these reverends, your prototypes, gentlemen, laid waste our fields and gardens, stripped our people of their earthly possessions, keeping up that agitation until twelve thousand or fifteen thousand people were driven from the state of Missouri, dispossessed of several hundred thousand acres of land—two hundred and fifty thousand acres, to be exact—which they had entered, and rendered them homeless—we might call, we do call, that persecution. When the Rev. Mr. Levi Williams led the mob that shot to death Joseph Smith and his brother Hyrum Smith in Carthage prison, and when the Rev. Mr. Thomas S. Brockman led the forces against Nauvoo, after the great body of the people had withdrawn from that city, and expelled the aged, the widow and the fatherless, and laid waste the property of the people—we think we are justified in calling that persecution, of which right reverend gentlemen were the chief instigators. And when in this territory some years ago one wave of agitation followed another, of which your class, and some of you, were chief movers, until a reign of terror was produced, and a regime was established under which men guilty at most of a misdemeanor, could nevertheless be imprisoned for a term of years covering a lifetime, and fined to the exhaustion of all they possessed, under the beautiful scheme of segregating the offense into numerous counts in each indictment; and when in that reign of terror women were compelled to clasp their little ones to their breasts and go out among strangers, exiled from their homes—we might be inclined to call that persecution. But our experience has been such that we scorn to call such attacks as this review [or comedy act] of yours persecution. It does not rise, gentlemen, I assure you, to that bad eminence. So we acquit you of any intent in your review to persecute us. You need not fear that such a charge will be made, we are not so thin-skinned as all that. Besides, gentlemen, your power is no longer equal to your malice, and so we do not believe you will ever be able to persecute us again.” (Answer To Ministerial Association Review. by B. H. Roberts., Improvement Era, 1907, Vol. X. July, 1907. No. 9 .)

Or, it's just a comedy routine: move on!

Here's a funny joke that Joseph Smith said he received from the Lord:
"assemble yourselves together to rejoice upon the land of Missouri, which is the land of your inheritance, which is now the land of your enemies". (see mormon scripture Doctrine and Covenants 52:42).

What are the non-Mormons in Missouri supposed to think when they read such a revelation? What would Mormons think if the Pope suddenly published a revelation in which he said "assemble you Catholics together to rejoice upon the land of Utah, which is the land of your inheritance, which is now the land of your enemies"?

The 'extermination order' is perhaps the most famous document that Mormons use to show that they are persecuted. Few know the circumstances surrounding its origin. About three months *before* it was issued, Sidney Rigdon delivered his famous 4th of July speech of 1838 which was partially reproduced in the church's Comprehensive History of the Church, vol. 1, page 441 as follows:

And that mob that comes on us to disturb us, it shall be between us and them a war of extermination; for we will follow them until the last drop of their blood is spilled; or else they will have to exterminate us, for we will carry the seat of war to their own houses and their own families, and one party or the other shall be utterly destroyed.
Joseph Smith approved of the speech and it was subsequently printed in The Far West, a weekly newspaper, and the church's own Elders' Journal. Joseph Smith said in History of the Church, "The oration was delivered by President Rigdon, at the close of which was a shout of Hosanna, and a song, composed for the occasion by Levi W. Hancock, was sung by Solomon Hancock. The most perfect order prevailed throughout the day." What were the non-Mormon readers supposed to think of these remarks? What were they to do when the church subsequently led battles against non-aggressive former Mormons and mistakenly led a battle against the state's own militia? A couple of faithful Mormons had this to say about the subsequent Mormon aggressions which occurred before the extermination order of Boggs:

"The females hastily took from the houses what they could carry, and here I might say there was almost a trial of my faith in my pity for our enemies... Among the women was one, young married and apparently near her confinement, and another with small children and not a wagon, and many miles away from any of their friends, and snow had begun already... to fall. My sympathies were drawn toward the women and children, but I would in no degree let them deter me from duty. So while others were pillaging for something to carry away, I was doing my best to protect... the lives and comfort of the families who were dependent on getting away upon horse-back....While others were doing the burning and plunder, my mission was of mercy....Before noon we had set all on fire and left upon a circuitous route towards home."
-- Benjamin F. Johnson

Even though Mormons of today know next to nothing about these events and precursors to the Mormon exodus, the Mormons of the day were well aware of why they were being 'persecuted'. When Brigham Young was jockeying the presidency of the church away from Sidney Rigdon after Joseph Smith died he said, "Elder Rigdon was the prime cause of our troubles in Missouri by his fourth of July oration." (Times and Seasons, vol. 5, page 667)

Wow, this is intense. Mr. Cross, I just want to say thank you for being a friend. Traveled down the road and back again
your heart is true you're a pal and a confidant.

And when you slit that fat kids throat, I started to believe in Jesus. And I will see you in 2 weeks or so at the plug awards, where I hope you will mock bloggers who pick every work apart like sailors driving everlong towards the shore.

Also, Neon Bible fucking rules.

Amen lord Jesus....amen.

reader,

Here's the link for the information you copied.

lds-mormon.com/tmpc.shtml

It's good to know that there are still those out there that support the extermination order. :)

By the way, what did the Mormons do to cause the violence against them before Missouri and Ohio? Why did section 52 call the people of Missoui "enemies"? Had something happened already to make the Mormons view them is such a way?

Yeah, I'd have to agree with the people who said that Emily, whoever she is, probably had never seen David Cross's comedy ever before. If she thinks that his Mormon bit is bigotry, then she probably has not heard any of his other, more truly satirical stuff, especially regarding Republicans and racism. He actually says "nigger" in the set - satirically, of course - and it all comes under the notion that DC is talking about racism, not black people in a disparaging way.

Sorry, Emily, but I've got to say that reviews of things - any thing, really - really aren't your specialty.

And, also, yeah, what the hell is "awkward comedy?"

I agree with David. Completely.

late to the party i know, but i wanted to add that as a mormon, i don't consider myself a fucking idiot. just a college-educated person navigating his way through life and faith the best he can. i'd like to know what cross objects to specifically, because i know mormonism can seem like wonky bullshit on the outset. but i've read fawn brodie's book and plenty of other anti rhetoric and have yet to find a reason to trade in my magic underwear. which, of course, isn't magic so much as symbolic. but fuckheads like cross misattribute symbolism for stupidity. loved you in Arrested!

here's food for thought about the book of mormon, which i don't consider very well written (too many and it came to passes) but still impressive. no one — no one — disagrees that the words were dictated from joe smith to his scribes. do you know how many other books of this scope were written like that? two, that i as an english major am aware of — finnegans wake and paradise lost. joyce, milton and smith. hmmm.