The Falun Gong Show: SFist Goes To The NTDTV Chinese New Year

there's no question that the PRC government is perpetrating horrifying human rights abuses on falun gong adherents, and there is certainly no begrudging the falun gong members' desire to bring these offenses to light.

the issue at hand, though, is that audience members are being charged up to $168 a seat to see a show that is a full-bore promo event for the falun gong, when nothing in the advertising or marketing lets customers in on that fact until they're seated in the hall, having already paid for a traditional Chinese New Year celebration.

"saved" by FG practice.) He also tells his practitioners if they believe in the disease-

I had a chance to talk to a professor P. H from Stanford University after his watching the Spectacular. Here is his comment:

P.H.: I think that now I understand the ER HU (urheen), it brought tears to my eyes. Its so beautiful. And the dancing is also of the highest caliber I'v seen, the most professional. It was equal to the professional ballet of the Monte Carlo, the Belarus, you can name any of the great ballet company, the San Francisco Ballet, the New York Ballet, this was equal to that performance.

And the ER HU string instrumentalist was something that, I had to say, the music went straight to my soul like an arrow. It was just beautiful.

Chinese history is the oldest in the world, the cultural is so rich and deep. There are so many contributions that China has given to the world. The west can hardly understand it.

Falun Gong, the idea of Truth, Compassion, Tolerance. I don't understand that really, but I do respect the right of any people to practice their religious belief.

Gary:

We all respect relegious freedom, but that does not translate to freedom to deceive the public. The Falun Gong has a history of getting politicians to endorse their events without disclosing the true nature of those events. There was a Falun Gong art exhibit in SF late in 2005 which mis-represented itself as nothing more than a classic Chinese art exhibit. They got Fiona Ma to endorse it under those false pretences, then Supervisor Ma (now Assemblywoman) had to withdraw her support. Falun Gong's master, who is thought of as the sole source of salvation during this period of "Fa-recification" (Falun Gong's version of final judgment) has told his faithfull disciples that when talking to "ordinary people" they must not speak about the teachings "at the higher levels." Thus, in a very real sense, all Falun Gong practitioners are taught to distort the truth in order to protect the Master and his teachings. When was the last time you ever heard a Falun Gong practitioners actually talk about Master Li and his role in the judging all sentient beings in the cosmos? When was the last time you heard one of them say that they must work to destroy the Chinese Communist Party as an absolute condition for their salvation? And have you ever been told about how many of the stories of organ harvesting in China have been debunked by no less than the US State Department and even human rights activist Harry Wu (who himself is no fan of China.)
Sooner or later the media and Western politicians will do their homework and actually learn what the Falun Gong is all about. For starters, one needs to start going to their websites and acutally reading what Li Hontgzhi says. And then I recommend you check out the article on Criticism and controversies about the Falun Gong in Wikiepedia.

Thomas: I believe true diversity is where any member of the community can contribute and share anything, be it their relgion, race, culture or just political views without fear of discrimination and hostility. Those precise values that you are trying to put forth are quite the contrary to what you're saying.

If it really is the Falun Gong's take on the Chinese New Year, then so be it. For your information there are several media that have been founded by religous groups, take the Guardian for example - it's one of the most popular papers in the world, even among people who aren't Christian.

If the Falun Gong, Christians, Catholics or Buddhists aren't open to participating in homosexuality or mixed-race marriages, then there's no reason why anyone (even if they themselves are homosexual or mixed-race) should force it on them.

I think the real reason why the person who wrote this article cannot understand the merits of the Falun Gong, is because he himself has never learned to appreciate the values it promotes. I would say "Truth, Compassion and Tolerance" is lacking in the world and more of it certainly can't hurt those who support it, nor those who don't necessarily agree with it.

As for Samuel, your own parents practice Falun Gong and you dare to bad mouth them? Shame on you!

Well, the feeling I have from reading this article is that the author is trying to deceive me in believing the show is not about traditional Chinese culture. Why? This comment shows profound ignorance about Chinese culture :
"The only remotely sexy gesture was when one of the male dancers suddenly and bizarrely ripped off his shirt in front of his mother, who then tattooed four characters on his back as he gritted his teeth on a bloody rag."

Since when "sexy" is traditional? Oh, and that guy who rips off his shirt is nonetheless than Yue Fei, the legendary Chinese general who was a perfect example of loyalty. Yeah, he wasn't spinning porcelain on his head, but hey, each one has his talents. His was military strategy.

Oh, yeah, I forgot one thing : buddhism, taoism and confucianism are the three pillars of traditional chinese thought and culture. The highest representations of these were expressed by people who immersed in these schools and practices. Now do you understand?

And for those comments who go all out to bash at Falun Gong's belief system : guys, please get a life and for crying out loud, don't lie as much! There are a few anti-Falun Gong agitators out there believed to be Chinese agents, sending letters to newspapers and writting on every blog to defame the practice, as if they were on a full-time crusade. You better believe it : Chinese communist propaganda may work for a while, but fails ultimately.

I personnaly haven't seen the show, but if it's all about virtue, I'm sure to appreciate it.

"Traditional Chinese"

Most Chinese people really have forgotten what that means because they have not been allowed to think about it. Intense fear will cripple most Chinese people who have to remember living through decades of Communist rule. As a free westerner you can not fully understand what it is like to have that impact on your mind/culture/society for 50 odd years.

I only have a vague sense of it from being embedded in a community of Chinese people for almost 9 years. Yes I am a Falun Gong practitioner. Now don't be scared we don't bite or hate people as many people think after grossly misunderstanding our teachings.

The fact is 99.999 percent of Chinese history believes in the divine, understood science by understanding the relationship between earth, man and heaven/the universe. That is the MOST consistent thing throughout all of China's history. Its not a bible thumping lecture but a sincere effort to enlighten and transcend that which is mortal.

This age old innate sense in man has been attacked for centuries and as Falun Gong is learning it is a serious battle. Such stories have inspired many artists for thousands of years to create moving works of art. Why can't Falun Gong? Why don't they tell you in advance, because too many people think we cut our stomachs open and set ourselves on fire. We want people to see a different side of us and a different side China, the traditional side.

So if you think people bending their bodies and balancing vases is "traditional culture", to each his own. But if you are interested in some substance that is a bit more spectacular, come see the heart of Chinese culture while it fights to stay alive today on stage brought to you buy NTDTV.

PS. "Traditional Chinese Culture" is very reserved and isn't inclined to celebrate with sexual things on stage. That character who took off his shirt was China's greatest patriotic General in all of Chinese History.

Happy New Year

Most Chinese Americans living in San Francisco support the Chinese government's ban of this dangerous and dishonest cult for a variety of reasons. The Falun Gong's teachings are homophobic, racist and dangerous because the Master tells his disciples to not seek medical attention when they are sick. Here's one of Master Li's many quotes about homosexuals:

"Some people who have sinned can have their karma eliminated through the death of the flesh body and suffering, and then they’ll be free of that karma when they reincarnate. Their lives don’t really die and they reincarnate again. But the karma that some people have accrued is too much, in which case the fundamental elements of their existence will be implicated and destroyed. Homosexuals not only violate the standards that gods set for mankind, but also damage human society’s moral code. In particular, the impression it gives children will turn future societies into something demonic. That’s the issue. That kind of destruction, however, isn’t just about disappearing after they’re annihilated. That person is annihilated layer after layer at a rate that seems pretty rapid to us, but in fact it’s extremely slow in that time field. Over and over again, one is annihilated in an extremely painful way. It’s terribly frightening. A person should live in an upright manner, living honorably like a human being. He shouldn’t indulge his demon-nature and do whatever he likes."

Interesting teachings about karma. It's strange how the Bible's section on karma was apparently removed.

How does this sound?

As the eternal High Priest in the order of Melchizedek, I took the bread, I blessed it, then I looked up to Heaven, I broke the bread and gave it to my disciples, I drew from my divine power and said: “Take and eat, this is my body”
In the same way I took the cup with wine, blessed it, and gave it to my disciples to drink, then by my divine power I said, “this is my blood, the blood of the new and everlasting covenant, that will be shed for the forgiveness of sins. Do this in memory of me.”

Excerpts don't cut it.

But anyhow, I appreciate what you're trying to do Tom (and Sam), which is proving to yourself that Falun Gong is a cult. Excerpts don't prove a thing but actions do. Practitioners are like the salt of the earth and live by Truth, Compassion and Tolerance. You will never be able to truly tarnish their image. Besides, everyone can relate to those virtues.

However I also appreciate the fact that if one has too much karma it is next to impossible for them to grasp the profound teachings of Falun Gong.

Religious freedom is for everyone and the Falun Gong are harmless folks. Their contribution to society, especially in the Arts department, is a big bonus. Hat off to the performers of the Spectacular!

Makina,

Interesting that you give yourself the label "salt of the earth" while suggesting that I have too much karma to "grasp the profound teachings of the Falun Gong."

You master says that without him the universe would not exist. He is preventing the explosition of the univirse by keeping up with its expansion. He cures the illnesses of his practitioners directly. His "law bodies" know what all his disciples do and think. He alone offers salvation to all sentient beings, while the wicked will be weeded out in a cosmic judgment process he calls "Fa-rectification." Homosexuals can expect to suffer a particulary slow and painful elimination unless they heed Li's warnings and give up their "bad behavior." And if you a a Chinese Christian, forget about Jesus, because the Christian paradise doesn't have any orientals in it. How does Li know? He's paid a visit to it. He's also paid a visit to hell and made sure that all his disciples have their names removed from it's registrty.

Makina, you have every right to consider these teachings "profound" if you like. But you do not have the right to misrepresent your beliefs to the public.

Tom,

Salt of the earth
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Salt of the earth is a phrase that may be:

English idiom: People who are salt of the earth are decent, dependable and unpretentious.

I'm not sure what you mean by misrepresentation of beliefs. One wouldn't be shocked to see buddhas at an East Indian show, right? The same goes for a Chinese show. Those ancient cultures are soaked in deities, Buddhas, Gods and Taos. Why shouldn't they be portrayed on stage in all their glory? People have different artistic concepts and this review is really bad. But there are so many good ones out there that it hardly matters.

I just see that you are trying very hard to condemn good folks for no obvious reasons other than their beliefs. If the 'excerpts' of the teachings are not for you, it's time to move on my friend.

And shame on the Chinese thugs for beating up the nice MC who was so brave as to speak out for his rights to believe in Falun Gong.

Michael,

Li Hongzhi denies the very humanity of homosexuals and you ask us to "just get over it"???

Li says homosexuals have "dark hearts," that we are "demonic" and have "lost our ability to reason" and with all that, you think this is no big deal? Where is your respect for the essential dignity of all human beings? Even the homophobic Catholic Church grants us our dignity, but not Li Hongzhi.

And you claim that Falun Gong treats all people equally? Your master who says only Falun Gong practitioners can detect the essencial moral principles of the universe...principles which are embodied in your slogan of "truthfullness, benevelonce and forebearance." So-called "ordinary people" are treated by Master Li as degenerates who will be weeded out in his cosmic judgment process, while his practitioners look forward to "consumation" and assending to Falun Gong paradise. Do these teachings really translate to "treating all people equally" to you? What am I missing here?

If you really lived by those principles, you would not fabricate stories about "genocide" of FG practitioners in China. You would not attack your critics with arrogance and contempt. You also would not mis-represent your agenda to the general public. The whole point of this SFist article is that the Falun Gong put on a show in San Francisco but wasn't honest about the nature of the show, thereby angering many people who had paid for their tickets. As one poster said above, more than 30 people walked out on your show. Will the Falun Gong give those disguntled customers a refund for their tickets?

If you do not believe the teachings of Falun Gong it will not be easy to understand the intent behind them. This principle applies to anything. If you are antagonistic toward them and automatically assume you are being attacked and nothing more then it will be even more difficult. But you asked a question so I will do my best to answer based on my personal understandings.

First of all the Falun Gong teachings are meant for Falun Gong practitioners. They are not meant to try and influence the general public to believe anything one way or another. They also teach practitioners to treat everyone the same way. Everyone.

No one can deny you your humanity. No one. This is evidenced clearly in the extreme example of the genocide against Falun Gong practitioners that you say is not happening. I am aware that many practitioners have benevolently explained things to you in this and other regards on multiple occasions in the past. I am not going to debate the factuality of this. I have seen the physical, psychological and emotional scars. You know where to look for information on this. For others, I'll give them a website of which you are undoubtedly already aware: www.faluninfo.net

You mentioned the Catholic Church being homophobic. I don't practice Catholicism but I am aware that Catholicism and most other religions have the same basic perception in regards to homosexuality. I can't comment on those because I don't know the details and won't attempt to guess.

I will speak for myself. Before I started to practise Falun Gong, I was very promiscuous. I now consider this to have been very wrong. If one does not practice Falun Gong or believe this, then that's their business. Falun Gong teachings are for Falun Gong practitioners. So, I would say, from my opinion that at that time I had a "black heart" so to speak. But because I believe the teachings, which are meant for practitioners, I consider the fact that the teachings allowed me to take a clearer look at my actions as compassion. Even though at one point I would have completely disagreed that promiscuity was wrong, I am now appreciative of the fact that I have realized this. I believe I am behaving in a way that is ultimately beneficial toward other as well as to myself and see this teaching as compassionate. But this is because I am a practitioner. Otherwise it would be irrelevant to me.

If you don't believe the teachings, then you won't believe the teachings.

Many teachings teach that people have both Buddha nature and demon nature. Everyone has these. Again, if you don't believe the teachings then you won't agree, but you asked a question that requires this explanation. In the past my demon nature just ran rampant. When I got going, my reasoning was not in control at all. My lust and desires took over and that's what ruled me. Not my reason. I would have said this was nonsense in the past but now I see it differently. But I am a practitioner and I believe in and understand the teachings. I see this knowledge as being imparted with a compassionate intent. I believed and I changed. If you don't believe, it's irrelevant. No one has ill will toward you. I personally feel much more good will toward everyone than I did before I started practising.

If I had not chosen to practice Falun Gong, no one would have done anything against me if I had continued as I was going. It would have been my own life and my own business. If my conduct had been considered improper by the standards of the teachings, then that wouldn't have been my concern.

Anyone is welcome to practice Falun Gong. But that doesn't mean that Falun Gong has to adopt its teachings to whatever each person brings into the practice. If one wants to practice then they will follow the teachings. If you don't want to, that's your business. If you don't believe them that's your business. But Falun Gong will still wish you well. It may believe that certain conduct can bring harm to people and the teachings teach practitioners that this can happen. This is compassionate in my opinion. One can choose to take this as a "denial of humanity" or a lack of "respect for the essential dignity of all human beings" as you put it, or it can be seen as a compassionate teaching meant to help people. But if you don't believe the teachings you won't agree with them. If you don't believe them and they are not doing anything to harm anyone and they only teach people to have good intentions and thoughts toward everyone and no one has any ill will or bad intentions toward you, why are you raising such a fuss? What does it have to do with you, these teachings you don't believe in?

This is what I meant by get over it. Why make such a big deal over something that is not harming you and which you don't believe in?

Your statement, "So-called "ordinary people" are treated by Master Li as degenerates who will be weeded out in his cosmic judgement process..." is grossly and deceivingly generalized. All beliefs believe that people who behave in certain ways will have certain fates, both good and bad. There is no point in the beliefs otherwise. But your statement as written is simply not true. But even if it were, what would you care? Why would you care? You wouldn't believe it anyway, so why would you even pay attention and raise such a fuss and incite ill will? But I will say again that it is a false statement.

You wrote, "while his practitioners look forward to "consumation" and assending to Falun Gong paradise." Your assumption about the "Falun Gong paradise" is not correct. But the ultimate goal of consummation or enlightenment is correct. Yes, that's the ultimate purpose. Not unlike many other beliefs. I wonder again, why this is a concern for you. How can this be connected with "treating all people equally"? If a person doesn't practice Falun Gong, how can they reach enlightenment within Falun Gong? Once more I don't see why this concerns you or why you care.

I have done my best to share my understandings with you and I stress that they are my understandings at my level and cannot represent the teachings of Falun Gong.

The Spectacular is totally honest about the nature of the show. It is completely rooted in traditional Chinese culture. Falun Gong shares many of the principles from that culture and the performances convey that. Good rewards good, evil rewards evil. Reverence for Buddhas, Gods and Daos etc. Falun Gong shares those beliefs which are traditional Chinese culture and those are represented through dramatic dance and musical performance.

I wish you well. I am very busy with other things and have to tend to them. Some of those things have to do with helping to stop the genocide which I know exists. Again, I wish you well.

I am Chinese-American, raised in the U.S., proud to be American. But I never understood my cultural heritage until I began to read The Epoch Times and to see the NTDTV shows. I understand, now, for the first time, my parents and grandparents and what made them what they are. I used to think they were oddities when I just wanted to be like all the other American kids. Even when I was much older, when my Dad told me I should learn something about Chinese traditional culture, I was rude to him - not understanding why I should. Now I understand. I feel as if I had been an orphan all my life, and I just learned who I am and where I came from. I'm ashamed to say that I was rather terrible to my parents when I was growing up - angry at them for not understanding my wanting to fit in to this culture. I was a "first generation" child. My parents and grandparents were born and raised in the old China - before the Communists took over. They escaped during the war.

I recall my uncle once told us how one of his grandmothers used to take in stray cats by the dozens in China. He said she didn't even like cats, which begged the question of "Why did she do that?" His answer? "Because she thought if she took care of them, she would go to heaven. She wasn't a Buddhist, but it's Buddhist to have compassion for all living creatures." You see, you didn't have to be practicing one of these religions in order to have an understanding of the deeper meaning of them. This is because Confucianism, Buddhism and Taoism were so pervasive in Chinese society for thousands of years - they have shaped the hearts and minds of countless Chinese people for millenia.

I think the reason why some of you are so confused by the NTDTV shows is that we are spiritually segregated in our daily lives here in the U.S. While I understand the meaning of "separation of church and state"; in fact, I wonder at its efficacy. I now think it does more harm than good. People who don't live their lives according to a spiritual tradition simply cannot understand the deep inner meaning of these shows; regardless of intellect or education. The spiritual tradition is an experiential and visceral lifestyle, not one based solely on intellect. The shows are not all Falun Gong in content. Most of the stories used are actual stories from China's vast history - whether based on real people or famous mythical characters. In the show I saw, there is a depiction of a Falun Gong woman who dies because of the persecution, but the actual story is about eternal life after death, and about Divine Retribution - both are mainstays, not only in Chinese tradition but in ancient traditions worldwide.

My family is Christian. I'm not a practicing Christian, but I've always believed in God, and my faith has strengthened because of my new understanding.

Buddhism, Confucianism and Taoism also coexisted peacefully as well. They kept China and its people going through countless upheavals because everyone believed in Gods and Heaven and Hell and Divine Retribution.

Many Chinese people in the Bay area believe in Communist propaganda because the influences (or stranglehold) they have here are strong. The Communists destroyed traditional Chinese culture during the 10-year genocidal phase called "The Cultural Revolution," which ran from 1966-1976. Mao called upon the Red Guards to destroy all traces of China's great historical past. This meant that priceless artifacts, monuments and temples were burned, pillaged, defaced and destroyed - by the tonnage - all across the country. Confucius was villified. His tomb was destroyed. And families were forced to turn on one another - destroying the very heart of the Chinese people - the family unit.

People have such short memories. And those of us who did not live through the horrors, cannot understand what those poor people went through. By the time the murderous rampage ended, people were brainwashed, exhausted, and numb to the relentless years of bloodshed and terror. No one was exempt from the tyranny.

Please go see the shows, and keep an open mind when you do. By the way, my brother is gay, and he loved the shows as well.

Is the Falun Gong about Truthfulness, Compassion and Tolerance?

In an interview with a Time reporter, the leader of the Falun Gong Li Hongzhi states that “I am just a very ordinary man.” But within the group Li demands that his followers respect him as the God. He teaches that “no being knows who I am. Yet without me, the cosmos wouldn't exist.” He also told his followers that “I have truly borne for you the sins you committed over hundreds and thousands of years…I will also save you and turn you into Gods.”

Li believes that advocacy of independence and self-reliance for women is wrong, when women stand up for their rights, the result is “divorce, fighting, abandoned children, and other social problems.” Li opposes interracial marriage and teaches that kids from mixed-race marriage do not have a “relationship with the higher levels.” Li is extremely homophobic. He calls gays and lesbians one of the world’s ten evils whose “dark heart turning demonic.” He condemns this group of people to a slow and painful annihilation: “That person (homosexuals) is annihilated layer after layer at a rate that seems pretty rapid to us, but in fact it’s extremely slow in that time field. Over and over again, one is annihilated in an extremely painful way.”

The Falun Gong aggressively suppressed its critics’ free speech in China before it was banned and later in the West. The Falun Gong’s suppression of critics was carried out in the form of public demonstrations. Hundreds--and in some cases, thousands--of practitioners literally encircled media organizations over what they said was “unfair coverage.” Many of the harassed media organizations gave in to the pressure. On May 27, 1998—twelve days after the China Central TV, the largest network in China, had aired positive coverage of the group—the local Beijing TV station broadcast a critical report of the group. More than a thousand practitioners besieged the station for days until “the TV station's chief fired the 24-year-old reporter involved and broadcast a favorable report about the group a few days later.”

The Falun Gong also suppressed my free speech when I was scheduled to speak with two other American presenters in July, 2005 on a Falun Gong panel at the International Cultic Studies Association's conference in Spain. A lawyer representing the Flaun Gong threatened us and the organizer of the conference with a lawsuit. Our presentation was canceled because the organizer did not want to fight a costly international lawsuit.

The Falun Gong always claims to be promoting Truthfulness, Compassion and Tolerance but in action it does just the opposite. Wake up practitioners, the FG is not worthy of your support!

The Falun Gong cult has exploited practitioners like my parents to promote its cause. My mother worked as a volunteer for this show, yet she had to buy tickets for herself, her family members and friends so the leaders of the group can make money from her. I have never seen such a shameless cult.

I like the show. I am not a christian but I like many Christmas songs. Do I need to read through the Bible to find the reason why I love those songs, or check what Jesus said about the homosexuality? I don't think so. I was moved by the programs in the show. It's something that touched my heart which I hadn't experienced for a long time.

Tom, you quoted out of context. The suffering described in the quote above applies to anyone who has accumulated too much karma, not homosexuals in particular. In Falun Dafa belief, practicing homosexuality accumulates lots of karma, so these people are in more danger of meeting this fate, but it's not certain that they will.

The person who mentioned "salt of the earth" explained the term, and I think any decent person could describe themselves this way too, yet above you mention it in a way that implies that it means something else.

Anyone who is well-versed on the subject of hate propaganda would know that what Samual says is just that. That's why he was served with a lawsuit before a "presentation".

The Margaret Singer quote. I won't mention everything, just the two very clear parts. There is no money involved in Falun Gong and it's organization is incredibly loose. Her statements regarding these are based on nothing. Cult expert or not, this shows that she really doesn't know much about Falun Gong.

You mention family members of practitioners who say Falun Gong is cult. Just because they are family members doesn't make them experts. Most people have family members who don't fully understand them and what they do. And people commonly blame external factors for their own problems. Even if there are people who have made these statements, what about the thousands of Falun Gong family members who haven't, and live together very harmoniously? I can assure you, there are a lot more of these.

Tom, you quoted out of context. The suffering described in the quote above applies to anyone who has accumulated too much karma, not homosexuals in particular. In Falun Dafa belief, practicing homosexuality accumulates lots of karma, so these people are in more danger of meeting this fate, but it's not certain that they will.

The person who mentioned "salt of the earth" explained the term, and I think any decent person could describe themselves this way too, yet above you mention it in a way that implies that it means something else.

Anyone who is well-versed on the subject of hate propaganda would know that what Samual says is just that. That's why he was served with a lawsuit before a "presentation".

The Margaret Singer quote. I won't mention everything, just the two very clear parts. There is no money involved in Falun Gong and it's organization is incredibly loose. Her statements regarding these are based on nothing. Cult expert or not, this shows that she really doesn't know much about Falun Gong.

You mention family members of practitioners who say Falun Gong is cult. Just because they are family members doesn't make them experts. Most people have family members who don't fully understand them and what they do. And people commonly blame external factors for their own problems. Even if there are people who have made these statements, what about the thousands of Falun Gong family members who haven't, and live together very harmoniously? I can assure you, there are a lot more of these.

Cullum:

Forgot to respond to your other inaccurate statements:
1. No, most decent persons would not refer to themselves as "the salt of the earth" because it would amount to hubris. The point is the FG practitioners, who are promised the status of gods by their master, have not humility.
2. Hate propaganda from Samuel? That's a joke, given what Master Li says about homosexuals, mixed-race people, women's rights advocates, disabled people and the like. Would you like me to start posting Li's hateful quotes here for everyone to see?
3. The Falun Gong doesn't collect money from people? Nonsense! Why just in this discussion we had one guy report he paid $68 dollars for tickets to your propaganda show. The real outrage, as Samuel points out, is that Li's cult even demands that the disciples, like his mother, have to pay for 4 to 6 tickets, as well as working endless ours supporting Li's anti-CCP campaign by writing letter to China, etc. What exploitatioin! Which, by the way, is one of the characteristics of cultish manipulation.
Listen, Cullen, I've heard all the apologetics you can come up to conceal the obvious cultish nature of the Falun Gong. You are welcome to your beliefs, but please don't deny Li's true teachings and his agenda to destroy the CCP.

You can quote all you want from Li Hongzhi's lectures. I know from my Christian background that without reading the source from start to finish, you're probably not getting the full picture. And the Bible covers an awful lot of material. It's like asking a non-Christian to talk about the Bible when they haven't even read it or studied it in its entirety. Things taken out of context always sound questionable. Or take a look at Islam. To those of us who don't study it, it sounds very strange and different. From all the rhetoric these days about terrorism, you would think that all Muslims are terrorists. I'm sure that's not true. People can act weird when they are scared and don't understand something. It's normal.

My brother thinks that the Falun Gong are good people, thanks for asking. And we're both horrified by the stories of the live organ harvesting of the practitioners by the Communist military in China. Did you know it's a multi-million dollar business? I went to a forum last year that talked about this. One speaker was a VP from the European Parliament who talked about a fact-finding mission he went on to China. He found evidence of the organ harvesting and called it crimes against humanity. He also said that at the end of the communist regime in Eastern Europe, secret concentrations camps were found in Bulgaria. I also heard there are camps in China with Falun Gong practitioners who are used as the organ donors. And I read a report that confirms this by 2 independent investigators from Canada, David Kilgour and David Matas. Another speaker at the forum was a former Communist official who defected from China last fall. He said that there's a movement in China to quit the Communist Party, and that more than 14 million people have resigned from the party! I read about it in the Washington Times last fall. The figures are now over 17 million. Did you know about the defections in Australia and Canada from the last 2 years of former Communist officials? It's just like the Soviet Union right before Communism fell there. There's a lot about the Communists that you're not understanding. People think that since communism fell in Eastern Europe, it's dead. No, the brutality still exists in China. And I think you are supporting them with their attacks, without even realizing it. I understand your fears because I know that gays have been victimized for centuries. But, it's apparent to me that the Falun Gong are not interested in attacking the gay community. They are trying to survive the brutal regime and trying to stop the senseless murders by letting people know the truth through non-violent means. Jews have done the same to memorialize the persecution they've endured from the Holocaust; as have African Americans who memorialize their horrors of slavery. I say more power to them.

Preview

The CCP is very devious in its export of hate propaganda to the west. Please have a look at these quotes from CCP officials. Also included are individuals who appear obsessively against Falun Gong and go to all websites around the world to post their stuff. Why the obsession - do they get paid by the word or by the post? Especially well paid could be a family member of a practitioner. I mean really who do you believe? Them or Amnesty International, the IED of the United Nations, Human Rights Watch.... Do these anti-Falun Gong posts come from SF or Beijing? Difficult to tell these days. Right now the CCP is terrified of the full scope of the persecution of Falun Gong being revealed to the world. Fortunately for them, they have the 'mirage' of economic prosperity on their side and unfortunately for the planet, most politicians and business people of the world value money over human rights and the environment.

Recent Quotes from Chinese Officials
on the Use of Propaganda and Culture Around the World

“The Party is in charge of propaganda, and the Party is in charge of ideology... It is an important facet of upholding the Party’s rule—something we must firmly stick to from beginning to end, and from which we must never veer… You should continue to see the strengthening and improving of our propaganda exports as a strategic mission, one wed to the battle of propaganda and ideology.”
—Hu Jintao, President of China, in a 12/5/2003 speech given
at the National Working Conference on Propaganda and Ideology

“[Our agency] must focus on making itself accepted and referenced by media in countries and regions who have important influence in international public opinion and who play important roles in the international community… Do research on and make plans for each country and area one by one… and expand our position on the battlefield of international public opinion… Be in the leading position, hold sway over people’s views, and take the initiative to influence and lead international public opinion.”
— Liu Yunshan, head of the Propaganda Department of the CCP Central Committee,
addressing China’s state-run Xinhua News Agency.

“Intensifying and strengthening our radio, film, and television propaganda overseas is critical in countering westernization, separatism, and infiltration. Safeguard state security, strengthen our defense system on the battleground of controlling public opinion… Radio, film, and television propaganda overseas is an essential and critical part of our Party’s foreign propaganda, and it is a global and strategic undertaking in service of the Party and the nation.”
—Tian Jin, member of the CCP Committee of the State Administration of Radio, Film, and Television, and Deputy Director of the Administration, speaking at the National Conference on Overseas Radio, Film, and Television Efforts

“The main targets of foreign propaganda should be the middle and upper classes in target countries, including politicians, people in business circles, and intellectuals since they control either political or economic power and have influence on the policies and pubic opinion in those countries… In particular we should make friends with the prominent figures of foreign media. We should have close relationships with them, and execute well our foreign propaganda through their help.”
—Research Group on Efficient Foreign Propaganda, of Xinhua News Agency

“Our past experiences with overseas communications have proved the importance of interpersonal communication. Perhaps for this very reason, our country has gradually paid attention to fostering our country’s image, and consciously organizes artistic performances, overseas exhibitions, visits abroad by leaders, and allows interviews by foreign reporters. The State Council Information Office spent USD $5 million in 1999 to host various kinds of ‘interpersonal communication’ activities in major U.S. cities, and has achieved good effects in terms of mass communication.”
—Kuo Ke, of China’s International News Strategy, in October of 2003

“Moreover, overseas Chinese and Chinese students studying abroad are another group of people deserving attention from our overseas propaganda… Presently, there are tens of millions of overseas Chinese and Chinese students studying abroad. Many of them have become part of mainstream society there, and sometimes are even elite figures of quite some influence. Foreigners generally learn about China through overseas Chinese. Thus overseas Chinese will provide [for our work] a bridging and proliferation effect.”
—Research Group on Efficient Foreign Propaganda, of Xinhua News Agency

For a complete report on how the Chinese Communist regime uses state-run media outlets, cultural events and overseas Chinese to both disguise and advance an illicit international agenda, see http://www.upholdjustice.org/

Posted by Susan

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2003-2006 Gothamist LLC. All rights reserved

People who think badly of the DAFA will be weeded out! Li warns everybody, not just the "wicked" CCP:

"Let me tell you, when this Fa-rectification matter is over, humankind will enter the next stage, and those people and beings who in their minds think that the Great Fa of the cosmos isn’t good will be the first weeded out. It’s because no matter how bad some being in the cosmos are, they are even worse, for what they’re against is the Fa of the cosmos. So when we clarify the truth, we’re eliminating people’s evil thoughts towards Dafa." Teaching the Fa at the Great Lakes Fa conference in North America (December 9, 2000 in Ann Arbor), p.1.

The Bible also has its Book of Revelations, which many think is happening right now! Other traditions also speak of End Times. Really, it's laughable how you keep quoting things out of context, without understanding what they mean! Buddhism also talks about the Last Havoc. Actually, "DA" means "Big" or "Great", and "FA" means "Law". It's what Buddhists refers to as the Great Law. I practiced Zen Buddhism for a while many years ago. I understand that Falun Gong also believe in DA-FA or Great Law. But, it's not unique to Falun Gong. Really, you need to stop - you are so confused! Your lack of understanding is making you look foolish.

Tom,

So be it, you don't like Dafa and I'm sorry to hear that -- but I respect your choice and your different opinion.

But in case you care to know, in a nutshell, what practitioners are really doing is peacefully exposing the crimes of the CCP so that the people responsible for those crimes will be taken to justice.

Murdering practitioners for their organs amounts to genocide and it will have to come to a halt soon.

http://investigation.go.saveinter.net

Indeed the CCP has deceived and killed many of its own people in the last 50 years or so and the killing is still going on unchecked. The CCP has declared war against Falun Gong belief's system, have dehumanized them in the eyes of the world and started eliminating them in 1999.

http://www.amnesty.org.nz/web/pages/home.nsf/dd5cab6801f1723585256474005327c8/83fba691f912206bcc2571d3001824ed!OpenDocument

http://ninecommentaries.com - Check Part V

To believe or not to believe?

Tom,

Every man, woman and child will decide their future and their faith for themselves. Nobody will force you or them to believe the teachings of Master Li and rest assured that practitioners will not force politicians to believe in their spirituality either.

What you fail to see is the 'persecution'as it stands today and that all the efforts of the practitioners are aimed at stopping this genocide.

And yes, one more thing--if bringing the murderers of Falun Gong practitioners to justice impacts on the party, which it will, because the persecution was launched by the party--they will just have to live with the consequences, won't they? Dictators might even end up in jail.

Usually people are not rewarded for killing others in cold blood. Let justice be done and peace will prevail.

Makina,

Actually, Li Hongzhi declared war on his critics in China long before the CCP banned his group in 1999. Local police were forced to respond to thousands of Falun Gong practitioners who staged illegal demonstrations at media sites all over the country demanding that they retract any critical statements made. As a result of those demonstrations, some journalists lost their jobs.

But more important than the illegal demonstrations was the health risks posed by Falun Gong practice. As you know, Li Hongzhi tells his practitioners not to seek medical treatment when they are sick, since sickness is actually an opportunity to get rid of karma. Ordinary people can take medicine, but Li’s disciples are encouraged not to as part of Li’s teaching on “sickness karma.” Following those teachings, many Falun Gong practitioners died needlessly in China.

It’s not surprising that the Chinese government took steps to protect the public health in 1999 by banning the group. For more on the historical situation in China leading up the ban of the Falun Gong , please read:
http://exposingthefalungong.org/fgban01.html
and the Wikipedia on Criticism and Controversies about the Falun Gong at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_and_controversies_about_Falun_Gong

Mei,

It's interesting in your post how you don't try to contradict my assertion that the Sujiatun organ-harvesting story has been thoroughly debunked, but instead move on to the Falun Gong's latest PR bludgeon used to humiliate the Chinese government: the David-Kilgour report.

The problem is that the report you site does not confirm that Beijing condones organ harvesting of practitioners at all. Yes, I am familiar with the report and I challenge you to find a quote from David Kilgour which supports your belief that organ harvesting done with the approval of the Chinese government has been "confirmed." The report itself says otherwise, and much of it is based just on phone calls to people living in China...people whom the Falun Gong itself helped David to get in touch with I am sure.

For more on this topic, please read a detailed refutation of the Kilgour-Matas report in the Falun Gong Wickipedia talk page, item # 14 in the contents: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Falun_Gong

1. You can copy and paste select quotations ad nauseum in order to support your belief that Falun Gong is homophobic. But as one poster mentioned in this thread (using Islam as an example), without reading the teachings of a practice in their entirety and without getting to know those who practice it, its very easy to form prejudiced views out of fear and misinterpretation. My suggestion to you: instead of focusing so much on the select quotations you're reading off the internet, try getting to know someone who practices Falun Gong and then see if you still have that same opinion of them? Failing this you're leaving yourself open to the possibility of misunderstanding and disinformation.

2. Falun Gong practitioners in China are being killed by a brutal, oppressive regime because they persist in their belief. Regardless of whether you're for or against Falun Gong based on your own personal feelings, condoning the deaths of these innocent people is incorrigible.

I find the common from Anti-CCP people here extreme. I go to China once a year for my business, the feeling I get from talking to people there is that they are pretty optimistic about the future and most of them believe the government is doing a good job in providing more freedom and improving living standards. Corruption is a big problem and the lack of free speech is argue about these facts. But the Chinese believe the situation is improving and ironically this improvement is due to the work of the government. Surely the Chinese government is still a authoritarian regime but the attacks against it here seem to be based on a bias.

Makina,

The sources you cite don't prove anything. Harry Wu sent letters to certain members of Congress saying "the greater expression of sympathy and support" (was) "to keep them (the Falun Gong) from straying too far from the truth." And the Kilgour/Matas report which you rely on to make your case said:
"The allegations... are difficult to prove or disprove. The best evidence... is eye witness evidence. Yet for this alleged crime, there is unlikely to be any eye witness evidence." (p. 2-3)

Look, I think it's reasonable to suspect that some really bad stuff happens in China due to the corruption and lack of disciple of local police officials. President Hu has made it a priority to clean up that corruption and civil rights activists in China have written about these problems. What's at issue here is the Falun Gong's claim that torture or organ harvesting of practioners is happening as part of government policy or directives. Sorry, but I have seen nothing that credibly makes that case.

BTW, this SFist site is supposed to focus on San Francisco issues. I would like to remind everyone that all these posts are in response to an SFist article that suggested New Tang Dynasty was not honest in the way it promoted the Chinese New Year show. Once some of the paying customers discovered it was nothing more than propaganda for the Falun Gong, they walked out.

Isn't the Falun Gong really shooting itself in the foot by promoting these shows with such deceptive advertising? People don't like to be lied to over little things, like what the purpose of a show is. When the Falun Gong grossly mis-represents its intentions to the general public, it suffers a loss of credibility.

I am quite familiar with the Falun Gong's PR tactics and because of those tactics...and the easiness with which practitioners "stray from the truth"...I have come to distrust much of what a practitioner says concerning alleged abuses in China. With a Master constantly exhorting his disciples to expose and destroy the CCP as a condition for their salavation, it's easy to understand why stories are made up. Li Hongzhi has declared war on China and as someone once said: the first casualty of war is the truth.

This reporter is quite a sleuth. She managed to uncover that many of the performers in this event practice Falun Gong. The next thing you know even blacks or Jews might try to get on stage and have their own show without first announcing to the public that they are black or Jewish. Can you imagine? Some numbers might even be influenced by their own cultures or beliefs. Good thing we have reporters like this to dig to the bottom and alert the public if that happens.

Seriously: as much as some of the critics here seem to want to argue that the audience was ripped off by this event, that is simply not the case. This is the third year running for my wife and me to attend the event. The crowd gets bigger each year, and quite a number of us return.

I believe much of the audience members are not as naïve as this reporter claims to have been – we understand that Falun Gong adherents are part of this show. Perhaps we aren’t as clever and have failed to see how that as some kind of conspiracy . . . or perhaps we’re just more open-minded.

Chris Schmidt

BTW: why is it necessary to declare the reporter's indepedence from the Chinese government at the top of the article? Highly unusual. Seems to me readers should be able to see a report is balanced by reading it – you can’t make it fair or balanced by announcing it.

Is the Falun Gong about Truthfulness, Compassion and Tolerance?
In an interview with a Time reporter, the leader of the Falun Gong Li Hongzhi states that “I am just a very ordinary man.” But within the group Li demands that his followers respect him as the God. He teaches that “no being knows who I am. Yet without me, the cosmos wouldn't exist.” He also told his followers that “I have truly borne for you the sins you committed over hundreds and thousands of years…I will also save you and turn you into Gods.”
Li believes that advocacy of independence and self-reliance for women is wrong, when women stand up for their rights, the result is “divorce, fighting, abandoned children, and other social problems.” Li opposes interracial marriage and teaches that kids from mixed-race marriage do not have a “relationship with the higher levels.” Li is extremely homophobic. He calls gays and lesbians one of the world’s ten evils whose “dark heart turning demonic.” He condemns this group of people to a slow and painful annihilation: “That person (homosexuals) is annihilated layer after layer at a rate that seems pretty rapid to us, but in fact it’s extremely slow in that time field. Over and over again, one is annihilated in an extremely painful way.”
The Falun Gong aggressively suppressed its critics’ free speech in China before it was banned and later in the West. The Falun Gong’s suppression of critics was carried out in the form of public demonstrations. Hundreds--and in some cases, thousands--of practitioners literally encircled media organizations over what they said was “unfair coverage.” Many of the harassed media organizations gave in to the pressure. On May 27, 1998—twelve days after the China Central TV, the largest network in China, had aired positive coverage of the group—the local Beijing TV station broadcast a critical report of the group. More than a thousand practitioners besieged the station for days until “the TV station's chief fired the 24-year-old reporter involved and broadcast a favorable report about the group a few days later.”
The Falun Gong also suppressed my free speech when I was scheduled to speak with two other American presenters in July, 2005 on a Falun Gong panel at the International Cultic Studies Association's conference in Spain. A lawyer representing the Flaun Gong threatened us and the organizer of the conference with a lawsuit. Our presentation was canceled because the organizer did not want to fight a costly international lawsuit.
The Falun Gong always claims to be promoting Truthfulness, Compassion and Tolerance but in action it does just the opposite.
The Falun Gong cult has exploited practitioners like my parents to promote its cause. My mother worked as a volunteer for this show, yet she had to buy tickets for herself, her family members and friends so the leaders of the group can make money from her. I have never seen such a shameless cult.

For those of you who think the Communist influence in San Francisco is minimal, be it over the arts community, etc, I sugest that you read the reports below.

Red Star over San Francisco

"San Francisco, California, boasts its own Human Rights Commission and bills itself as a bastion of tolerance, diversity and inclusion."

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=21465

Terror in Chinatown

"President Bush calls Communist China a "partner" in the war on terror, but some Chinese Americans are accusing China of bringing its own terror campaign to the USA."

http://www.thenewamerican.com/artman/publish/article_3676.shtml

If I'm not mistaken the CCTV Communist Channels are allowed to broadcast in SF and the US. There were just approved in Canada too--basically a mouthpiece for the Party. The Communist infiltration in our countries (and other countries) is huge. The NTDTV Spectacular in Seoul was cancelled last week due to CCP pressure.

http://ahdu88.blogspot.com/2007/01/now-is-harpers-chance-to-defend-rights.html

I don't have the time to respond to everything Tom and Sam have to say here. And I'm amazed that they have this much time and energy to do all this. But I will say that what they present through plucking random quotes from the volumes of Falun Dafa lectures and adding their own commentary in no way represents Falun Dafa, far from it. (in fact, I've never known two people who know so much and so little at the same time). If what Tom says is true, then why are there so many Falun Dafa mixed race couples? Why are there so many non-Chinese who practice? Why do we not hear of Falun Dafa practitioners discriminating against others? Like any other spiritual discipline, there is so much context to be understood in the teachings of Falun Dafa and like any other spiritual discipline you need to take your time and start from the basics. If any observers seriously want to understand Falun Dafa, then read Zhuan Falun, what Tom calls the Falun Dafa "bible". http://www.falundafa.org/eng/books.htm

Campers,

Like Tom, I've always loved to read 'holy' works and chuckle at the hypocrisy of adherents to some really barbarian ideas.

For instance, you've all commented how you cannot be a real Catholic unless you practice eternal cannibalism on the body of Jesus. What if you're a vegetarian? "Drink my blood."?? So, Mother Theresa was a vampire?

The Jews can't match the murder rate of Christians but read their account of how they came to obtain their land in Judges. One Judge (Jeremiah? Joshua?) is told to commit genocide upon the people of the towns he captures. All the way down to the last woman and infant. He spares the women and children and 'God' rebukes him through the prophet.

All religions are created by and for cowardly crackpots. Let's see Tom turn his guns on the Jews. Stand back now, this could get ugly.

h.

I thought this is supposed to be the New Year Spectacular Show. I don't care what all of you guys said - be it Christian related show or Falun Gong related show. I saw the show and I think those that haven't see the show, should try to see one for yourself next year Spectacular 2008 in San Francisco. From my observations, majority likes it and minority dislikes it; however, this is very common for every grand shows out there and none has reach to the point of true perfection.
Don't you guys got something better to you than this endless debate.

Kind regards,
Scott

Makima,

I accurately report what your master, Li Hongzhi, says about the Dafa and you use that to attack me?

I have never said that practitioners "are not good enough to be Dafa disciples." From my experience, Falun Gong practitioners are well-intentioned idealists who have gotten sucked into Li Hongzhi's cultish control mechanisms. I believe practitioners really do want to do the right thing, but as long as you accept Li Hongzhi's absolute authority, you will stray from the very principles you espouse.

You have been told by your Master that your salvation depends on destroying the "evil and wicked" party in China and you have come to accept the use of dishonest tactics to reach that objective, all in the name of salvation. How can this be?

Please think again what it means to be "truthful". Think back to the time before you became a Falun Gong cultivator and compare that to your current thinking. This posting on SFist provides a very simple and clear test of the truth: the author went to a show which promoted the Falun Gong, but felt "duped" (that's her word, not mine) by New Tang Dynasty because nowhere in their promotion did they even mention the words "Falun Gong." Not only the author, but another 30 plus attendees also felt duped and walked out of the show.

There was a time in the past when you could see why these people were justified in responding as they did. But now, when a critic...any critic...brings even a small concern such as this one to your attention, you lash out at that critic, rather than looking inside yourself.

Consider the hostile tone of your post which accuses me of all kinds of bad intentions. And consider that neither you nor H. Brown has responded to my questions concerning Li's teaching that higher beings are all racially pure. Li says that people who have inter-married have created a big problem because they've lost their connection with their own paradise. And although he appears willing to deal on a case-by-case basis with all the millions of mixed-race people who live on this plantet, I still ask myself why is being of mixed race a problem in the first place?

Can't inter-marrying be considered a good thing? I am proud of the fact that I am of mixed blood and am genuinely puzzled by a theology that talks about paradises in which only yellow people or white people reside. I provided a series of Master Li's quotes about this subject hoping that there could be an honest response or explanation from some of the practitioners. But instead, I myself get attacked, as if it's my ideas that I am posting rather than Master Li's.

Makima and Cullen: I want you both to know that I do not have any ill feeling towards you. Although I would like to have a high level discussion with you about Li's teachings on mixed-race people, I know that Li has warned his practitioners not to talk about the teachings "at the higher levels" when talking with "ordinary people." If that's the reason you can't respond to my questions, then I will respect your reticense and we can more on.

It amazes me that none of the Falun Gong practitioners participated in the discussion here understands how wrong it is to sale a Falun Gong promotion under the banner of Chinese culture. I hope those misguided consumers sue the Falun Gong for a refund.

Next year why don’t guys tell the truth so we can see how many people would pay for the Falun Gong show.

I loved the show! I and my co-worker bought tickets for the show and it was worth paying $68 to enjoy it!!!

The outfits were glamorous! For the first time I see such wonderful Chinese New Year Celebration!

I felt that this show finally portrayed the Chinese as people who have dignity and are proud of their cultural heritage!

I learned about the beauty of the Qing “Ladies of the Manchu Court" ( I have the program in front of me now) and the Tang Dynasties - "Mulan", "A Dunhuang Dream". I saw some in the audience around me moved to tears when the singer sang the song "Tiananmen please tell me".

The Tibetan bowl dance and the last piece - Drum dance were absolutely stunning!

The outfits were really an eye-opener for westerners. And I learned to appreciate this ancient culture. After seeing the show, I thought that China is finally opening to the rest of the world and is truly showing its real cultural assets.

I have to say, I did not feel deceived in any way by the show organizers!

I'm glad actually that I did not see any of those tacky acrobatic performances that we see every year during the SF Chinese New Year Parade. I was also glad that there wasn't anything "sexy", because this venue is the renowned SF Opera House after all!

My only complaint is that the show was a bit short. I wish it was longer.

I'll definitely recommend the show to everyone I know! I and my co-worker had a great evening! And if the show was put by Falun gong members, then I commend you Falun Gong for the great achievement!

I hope to see you next year!!!

OH and thanks Tom for reminding everyone about the great cleansing of the cosmos coming up where matter that's not up to the standard of the universe might be desingrated.

Grace,

Funny you should call me and Samuel bitter or hateful because we try to educate the public about what Master Li teaches. It would be a lot easier for us if a Falun Gong practitioner were willing to honestly share the teachings at a higher level with ordinary people. Surely you can see the virtue in sharing these teachings with others.

Since Li has come to this world to save all sentient beings with his Dafa, why wouldn't you want me and Samuel to report to readers what the Dafa teaches about who will be weeded out in the Fa-rectification and who will be saved? In fact, don't you have a moral obligation to share this information with ordinary people?

I know Li has promised to turn his practitioners into gods, providing you do a good job in clarifying the truth, defending the Dafa, and destroying the CCP. I just wish you could be a little more honest with non-practitioners when you "clarify the truth." I also am puzzled why you don't seem to ever demonstrate humility when you talk about your beliefs. By calling your critics names...saying they are bitter or hateful and need to get a life...some people might reach the conclusion that Falun Gong practitioners are more concerned about power and ego than they are about letting go their attachments. From my experience, real Buddhists do not go around saying these things. The language you use to ridicule me and Sam would be considered ego-based by all the Buddhists I have ever met. And did you know that in some spiritual teachings, all ego attachment is thought to stem from fear...fear, for example, of what others might think of you?

What kind of behavior do you think Master Li had in mind when he made these observations in Los Angeles last year:

"As cultivators, think about it—I've talked about this in Zhuan Falun and in my earlier teachings on Fa—I have said, 'Don't hit back when hit, don't talk back when insulted.' When others mistreat you, you should respond with just a smile and let that be the end of it. And when others are embroiled in conflict and you are just an onlooker, you should think about it, 'How can I do better? If I were in that position, would I be able to control my xinxing and face the criticism and disapproval like a cultivator?'

Cultivation is about looking inside yourself. Whether you are right or wrong, you should examine yourself. Cultivation is about getting rid of human attachments. If you always reject reproaches and criticism, always point your fingers at others, and always refute others' disapproval and criticism, is that cultivating? How is that cultivating? You have grown used to focusing on other people's shortcomings, and never take examining your own self seriously. When others' cultivation one day meets with success, what about you? Isn't Master hoping that you are cultivating well? Why won't you accept criticism, and why do you keep focusing on other people? Why not cultivate inward and examine your own self? Why do you get agitated when you are criticized? How many of you seated here can keep at ease when someone points at you out of the blue and berates you? How many of you can stay unruffled and search for the reason on your part when faced with others' criticism and chiding?"[11]

Although I disagree with most of what Li Hongzhi says, I have to admit I agree with the sentiments he expressed here. Sadly, most Falun Gong practitioners I meet do exactly the opposite of what Li seems to expect.

God bless you.

Another personal attack from a practitioner?

Let me again ask that all Falun Gong practitioners who seek to attack their critics should look within themselves. The previous practitioner said I was bitter, hateful and needed to get a life. Now this one says I am obsessed with the issue of homosexuality. Who will be next in this parade of castigation?

God bless you all.

What Li Hongzhi says about himself:

"No being in the entire cosmos knows the truth. They regard me as a cultivator, and so they dare to do what they have." Speech by Master Li Hongzhi at the Western US Cultivation Experience Sharing Conference of Falun Dafa (October 21, 2000), p.1

"Countless gods – so many gods – are watching this. . . . But they, too, don’t know who I am." Speech by Master Li Hongzhi at the Western US Cultivation Experience Sharing Conference of Falun Dafa (October 21, 2000), p. 5.

"Of course, if you will all be gone with the completion of cultivation, I am teaching the Fa to Gods." “Exposition of Falun Dafa in the New York Seminar” (March 22, 1997), p. 32.

"No being knows who I am. Yet without me, the cosmos wouldn't exist. The reason I have come here is to save all sentient beings amidst the Fa-rectification at a time when the colossal firmament of the cosmos is disintegrating." Touring North America Teaching the Fa (March, 2002) http://clearwisdom.net/emh/articles/2002/4/14/2002natourlect.html

"I made a careful investigation once and found that mankind has been through the state of complete annihilation eighty one times." Zhuan Falun, 2nd edition, p.20

"I am the only person in the world who is teaching orthodox Fa in public. I have done something nobody did in the past and opened such a large door in the Dharma-ending time." Zhuan Falun, 2nd edition, p. 101

"My Fashen (law body) knows everything. He knows everything on your mind, and he can do anything. He will not take care of you if you do not practice cultivation, and he will help you all the way to the end if you practice cultivation." Zhuan Falun, 2nd edition, p.170

What Li Hongzhi says about ordinary people (non-practitioners):

"As a cultivator, when you upgrade your level continuously, every sentence you say carries energy. You can control ordinary people, so you must not just speak however you please." Falun Gong, revised edition, p.44.

"As a matter of fact, we practitioners cannot mix up ourselves with ordinary people. As you know, in ancient times, when someone becomes a monk, he is not longer regarded as an ordinary person." Falun Dafa Lecture In New York City, March 23, 1997, p. 1.

"An ordinary person cannot detect the existence of the characteristic of Zhen-Shan-Ren in the universe because all ordinary people are at the same level. When you reach beyond the level of ordinary people, you will be able to detect its existence." Zhuan Falun, 2nd edition p.27

"What do ordinary people know? They just echo views of others, and they will believe him." Zhuan Falun, 2nd edition p.85

"I told you early on that I removed the name of every single Dafa disciple from Hell's list. Every ordinary person is listed in that registry. I have removed the names of Dafa disciples from Hell's registry. I had their names removed from Hell. So your names are not there. In other words, you are not in any way beings of the Three Realms, and you are no longer ordinary persons."
http://www.clearwisdom.net/emh/articles/2006/4/1/2006_LA_Lecture.html

More quotes from "The Nine Commentaries on the Communist Party" (www.ninecommentaries.com):

The level of civilization can be measured by the degree to which violence is used in a regime. By resorting to the use of violence, the Communist regimes clearly represent a huge step backward in human civilization. Unfortunately, the Communist Party has been seen as progressive by those who believe that violence is an essential and inevitable means to societal advancement.

This acceptance of violence has to be viewed as an unrivaled and skillful employment of deception and lies by the Communist Party, which is another inherited trait of the CCP.

“Since a young age, we have thought of the US as a lovable country. We believe this is partly due to the fact that the US has never occupied China, nor has it launched any attacks on China. More fundamentally, the Chinese people hold good impressions of the US based on the democratic and open-minded character of its people.”

This excerpt came from an editorial published on July 4, 1947 in the CCP’s official newspaper Xinhua Daily. A mere three years later, the CCP sent soldiers to fight American troops in North Korea, and painted the Americans as the most evil imperialists in the world. Every Chinese from Mainland China would be astonished to read this editorial written over 50 years ago. The CCP has banned all publications quoting similar early passages and published rewritten versions.

Since coming to power, the CCP has employed similar artifices in every single movement, including its elimination of counter-revolutionaries (1950-1953), the “partnership” of public and private enterprises (1954-1957), the anti-rightist movement (1957), the Cultural Revolution (1966-1976), the Tiananmen Square massacre (1989), and most recently, the persecution of Falun Gong since 1999. The most infamous instance was the persecution of intellectuals in 1957. The CCP called on the intellectuals to offer their opinions, but then persecuted them as “rightists,” using their own speeches as evidence of their “crimes.” When some criticized the persecution as a conspiracy, or “plot in the dark,” Mao claimed publicly, “That is not a plot in the dark, but a stratagem in the open.”

Deception and lies have played a very important role in the CCP’s gaining and maintaining control. China enjoys the longest and most complete history in the world, and Chinese intellectuals have had the greatest faith in history since ancient times. The Chinese people have used history to assess current reality and even to achieve personal spiritual improvement. To make history serve the current regime, the CCP has made a practice of altering and concealing historical truth. The CCP in its propaganda and publications has rewritten history for periods from as early as the Spring and Autumn period (770-476 BC) and the Warring States period (475-221 BC) to as recently as the Cultural Revolution. Such historical alterations have continued for the more than 50 years since 1949, and all efforts to restore historical truth have been ruthlessly blocked and eliminated by the CCP.

When violence becomes too weak to sustain control, the CCP resorts to deception and lies, which serve to justify and mask the rule by violence.

One must admit that deception and lies were not invented by the Communist Party, but are age-old scoundrel acts that the Communist Party has utilized without shame. The CCP promised land to the peasants, factories to the workers, freedom and democracy to the intellectuals, and peace to all. None of these promises has ever been realized. One generation of Chinese died deceived and another generation continues to be cheated. This is the biggest sorrow of the Chinese people, the most unfortunate aspect of the Chinese nation.

For those who want to hear or read the real story about Falun Gong, you fellas can check out www.falundafa.org, www.clearwisdom.net or www.fofg.org (friends of FG).

There isn't anything secretive about Falun Gong. Everything has always been opened to public, translated in more than 60 languages around the world, posted on websites and free of charge.

You don't need Samuel Luo, a well known anti-FG propagator, to tell you about FG. Look it up and judge for yourself.

As far as I remember Samuel Luo was sued in Spain for FG slander! The way he attracts public and media attention is by using the fact that his parents practice Falun Gong. So, he takes advantage of this fact to solicit lies presented as a first hand experience.

To be honest, I feel for his parents, because I don’t know how they go about in life, living under such pressure put on them by their own son.

In addition, Tom Brown’s quick copy-and-paste work aims at inciting hatred against Falun Gong by plucking things out of context and re-adjusting them so that he can prove his point.

It's easy to make fool of everything, especially if you aren’t a believer. You can do it with the New Testament, with the Bible, the Koran, Falun Gong or any other spiritual path. FG Teachings guide only those who choose to take this path and who believe in high morals of Buddha, Dao and God and follow Truth, Compassion and Tolerance!

Falun Gong practitioners have no clue of what Chinese culture is about.

First of all the Chinese culture is known for its strong family values—the Chinese worship their ancestors and prefer to live together as a big family. Thus the spirit of Chinese New Year celebrations always centers on the reunion and harmony of the family as shown by New Years celebrations in Beijing, Hong Kong and Taiwan. In contrast the Falun Gong demands its followers to give up their love for their family, Li declares: ““Love between a man and a woman, love for parents, feelings, friendship, doing things for friendship, and everything else all relate to this sentimentality. If this sentimentality is not relinquished, you will be unable to practice cultivation.”

http://falundafa.org/book/eng/lecture4.html#3

Do you know what kind of group would demand its members to give up love for their friends and family? Cults!!!

The Chinese culture does not demonize homosexuals. In its five thousand years of history none of China’s religions—Taoism and Buddhism—have ever singled out any group of people. Chinese religions also do not feature a savior god that atones for the sins of all mankind and turns people into gods. Falun Gong’s condemnation of gays and its belief that Li Hongzhi is a savior God are borrowed from the West.

The Falun Gong promotes itself under the banner of promoting Chinese culture. But in fact its beliefs violate the values that the Chinese have treasured through out the centuries.

I don't know what's so surprising about contributions to these non-profit media outlets. They are among the few media who cover news about disenfranchised groups in China than most other media in the "free world", making the Communists truly transparent, and not one based on Communist propaganda. I would think that Falun Gong and the media you are attacking welcome the free publicity you are giving them.

What is most troubling is the profound ignorance reflected in some of these postings about traditional China. It's apparent that much has already been forgotten in just one generation because of the decades of genocide and propaganda at the hands of the Communists. Truly sad!

i love seeing those little old ladies who look my my pau pau on the street in their costumes. the one with the person dressed as a police man as (s)he whips the lady with makeup on her eyes while in a bamboo cage is my absolute favorite. i crack up each and everytime.

I also love the signs that say "your chinese coworkers are telling you lies". i dont know anythign about the falun gong, but they sure do crack me up.

Oops not so fast Tom--I did not validate your point about ticket prices...All I said was this:

"OH and thanks Tom for reminding everyone about the great cleansing of the cosmos coming up where matter that's not up to the standard of the universe might be disintegrated."

Now that Bobby Fletcher is here too, get ready for more disinformation. This is a picnic for diehard anti-Falun Gong fans. Woe..all that CCP party hate propaganda from the 90's! That's a bit retro guys don't you think?

I totally understand what reknown human rights expert Robin Munro went through when he wrote this:

http://www.jaapl.org/cgi/reprint/30/2/266.pdf

In February, 2005, a World Psychiatric Association delegation visited China to investigate the allegation of psychiatric abuse made by human rights activist Robin Munro and the Falun Gong. Alan Stone, professor of law and psychiatry at Harvard, a former president of the American Psychiatric Association and recipient of a Guggenheim Fellowship to study the international political abuse of psychiatry, later published his findings as a member of the delegation. In an unambiguous tone, Dr. Stone stated that the claim of Beijing politically abusing psychiatry since 1949 “was impossible to credit” even before his trip.

Dr. Stone also said: “the most important message I bring back from China for my psychiatric colleagues is that we should resist the impulse to make the struggling profession of Chinese psychiatry a target of opportunity for human rights advocates whose real political grievances are with the Chinese government.”

http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/article/print.jhtml?articleID=164303114

Makima,

How can you possibly say that Falun Gong has no stance on homosexuality? Master Li does not even consider homosexuals to be human. We are the only group of "degenerates" or "deviants" whom Li singled out for a speciallly slow and painful karma-elimination process by the gods. True, he has also said that because of Falun Gong we can avoid that punishment by giving up our "bad behavior."

I have never met a Falun Gong practitioner willing to disagree with the Master on the topic of homosexuality. In fact, as you know, many practitioners posted comments about homosexuality on the Indymedia website in February, 2006. Here are some excerpts from one of those posts. His letter is in response to comments I had made on this subject...

Letter to SFIndymedia from FG practitioner:

“But for any "spiritual" leader to think that any God would want to eliminate any human being for an in-born trait such as homosexuality is beyond silly.”

You know, I had the same thought when I first heard about the holocaust in Germany when I was a child.

However calling homosexuality an inborn trait is a bit of a misnomer. To explain that I’ll have to go deeper into various prehistoric events that occurred, and that are both the cause of homosexuality and part of the need for Fa rectification.

You see, a person’s gender is more than a simple physiological matter; every ones soul has an inherent gender, some being male, and others female. Originally it was supposed to be that a male soul would only be born into a male body, and a female soul would only be born into a female body. It was in fact very much the case for quite some time until something happened that screwed everything up. What exactly happened is irrelevant, other than to say this event is what caused some men and women to be born into the wrong bodies.

This is most often the cause of what most people would call a “tomboy” or “tomgirl” tendency. Even though a male soul was born into a female body, that soul often still had the inherent tendencies of a male persona; the same is true vice versa.

Now this itself is not a bad thing, except when it comes to a person’s sexual activity. Regardless of what gender a person’s soul is, their sexual activity must conform to the natural way of living as prescribed for Humans. Failure to do so will lead to unfortunate consequences.

“It is also a hateful thought”

Last I checked “hate” is an emotion. I do not have the emotion of “hatred” toward anyone who is homosexual, or anyone else for that matter. However if your definition of a “hateful” person is anyone who disagrees with you, or your way of life, I think that’s just sad.

As for the issue of SARS, I was not there; I did not see what was transpiring so I’m not going to comment on it in any specific ways. It’s like the holocaust in Nazi Germany, I was not there personally and I’m not going to talk about it as if I was. I can tell you that historically speaking, whenever peoples karma accumulates enough all kinds of natural and man made disasters will abound. By and large it is those people who have the largest amounts of karma who are at the receiving end of the worst of any disaster, be it an earthquake, tsunami, volcanic eruption, disease, ect…

It’s just that things are arranged to appear random intentionally, in order to give narrow minded people an excuse so they can say “It was just a natural phenomena”. The truth of the matter is that everything is alive and everything knows what it is doing. If it is your time to go, then nothing is going to save your life; if it is not your time to go then nothing can kill you. It’s not absolute since a person can choose to commit murder for instance, and there are unnatural births and deaths in the balance of things.

I could give half a dozen examples from my own life of times when by all rights a certain accident should have killed me, but I emerged with barely a scratch. There are no co-incidents, everything happens for a reason.

To say that a it would be silly for a God to want to eliminate deviant Human beings is like saying it would be silly for a Human being to want to eliminate a cancerous tumor. In many ways God’s view deviant Human beings as the same as cancer. Look at it this way, the prevailing medical wisdom is such that if you get a cancerous tumor it should be cut out, and or killed with chemotherapy and radiation treatments. As far as I know those are the only ways that modern medicine knows of curing cancer.

Would you want to kill a cancerous tumor that started growing in your brain? Who would call you silly for wanting to be cured? We all know that cancer is simply deviated cells that no longer perform their intended function and if left un-dealt with will threaten the life of the person who has cancer.

Has it occurred to you yet that since I have been saying that everything is alive and everything knows what it is doing, that the Earth itself is alive and it knows what it is doing? Then to use the analogy of a cell of a human body, you and I and everything that lives on this planet is just like a cell that lives in the body of this planet. Such a comparison is not perfectly fitting, buy it helps you get the idea. Now as “cells” of the body of the planet Earth we have our intended function, which is in general, to be kind to one another, live productive virtuous lives, make more Humans, and live in harmony with natures design. If we deviate from that intended function too far we become as cancer cells that threaten the well-being and perhaps even the very life of the planet Earth.

Traditionally the course of action that was taken was to simply expunge the deviated Human beings and be done with it. Just as the prevailing wisdom of modern medical science is to expunge a cancerous tumor. But what if somebody came up with a way to rectify cancerous cells, and return them back to a healthy state whereby they preformed their intended function once again? Who would not go for that? The only difference is that Human beings have to choose their future, whereas the cells of ones flesh body don’t really have any choice about anything.

As such this period of time is exactly the time wherein Human beings choose where they wish to position themselves. The choice is simple: live in harmony with the ways of nature, or choose not to live in harmony with the ways of nature; and all that entails. Specifically, that dose not mean that one must relinquish homosexuality at this time. Nor dose it mean that one must agree with everything that any spiritual teaching says. If you don’t agree with the teachings of Falun Gong, then that’s just fine you don’t need to agree and you can believe whatever you want. I would caution you however, as I would caution anybody be they practitioners of Falun Gong, Christians, Catholics, Hindus, homosexuals, heterosexuals ect… That harboring resentment towards others is most certainly not harmonious with the ways of nature, and absolutely no good will come of it.
***********
This letter, dated February 07, 2006, was subsequently deleted from the SFIndymedia Web Site due to its homophobic content.

I never suggested that only Falun Gong understand traditional Chinese culture; that's a patent lie. In fact, I posted quotes made by several people who are not Falun Gong who confirm that NTDTV's shows reflect authentic Chinese culture, upon seeing the shows in L.A. Many postings have misquoted me and others who are only interested in the truth. My family is from the old China, before the CCP. They confirmed what is published in The Epoch Times and in NTDTV's shows and news. I rely on their objectivity. Anyone born here in the U.S. after 1949 won't know the true bloody history and violent nature of the CCP; unless they served in the government or in the military - fighting the Communists in southeast Asia, or unless they were Christian missionaries who witnessed the violence for themselves.

Dimytri,

Your information is outdated. In case you didn't hear the "communist party" is no longer communist and it is pursuing all kinds of reforms, including introducing democratic voting at local levels. Did you know that homosexuality was legalized by the CCP in 1997 and it has also been removed from the list of mental illnesses? In fact, when I visited China recently, there were gay bar listings for Guangzhou and Beijing, to name a few of the bigger cities.

Admittedly, homosexuals in most contries have a harder time in rural areas, but that isn't the fault of government policies. There are strong cultural biases against homosexuals in many places, but in China that does not translate to religious/moral condemnation in the way Li Hongzhi teaches. It's one thing to be considered "odd" in a social sense, but altogether something different to be considered demonic or inhuman. It takes a Li Hongzhi to really bring out the homophobia in ignorant people.

Li Hongzhi, who grew up under the old Communist regime in rural China, still classifies homosexuality as a mental illness. He says "homosexuals have lost their ability to reason at the present time." I would much rather live in the new China as a homosexual than be part of any Falun Gong group which publicly pretends to be accepting of gays, but privately condemns them.

The hypocricy of the Falun Gong on this issue is astounding. All you need to say is 'we don't agree with Li Hongzhi that homosexuality is demonic and not the standard of being human." But of course you don't say that because to do so would be to challenge the Master and if you did that you would forfeit your chance to reach consumation.

As long as Falun Gong practitioners think homosexuality causes natural disasters, or that homosexuals are like cancers that need to be cut our of the cosmic body, they will be considered bigots by most educated people in the civilized world.

Your response shows that you don't have much understanding or appreciation of how prejudice works. Li Hongzhi's teachings on homosexuality, which are known and accepted by Falun Gong practitioners, most certainly do have consequences. Once a category of human beings has been demonized as deviant and inhuman, that exlusion from humanity distorts the person's thinking about that "inhuman" person in powerful ways. In fact, the very basis of Hitler's extermination of Jews, gays and Gypsies was a body of theoretical work done by American and British academics who called their field "eugenics." In case you didn't know, you Master talks just like a eugenicist.

For you to point the finger at me for bringing up the subject of homosexuality, rather than considering the possibility that your master just might be wrong on this subject is truly outrageous. It is clear that Falung Gong practitioners cannot think for themselves on these matters.

Frankly, I am growing weary of having to respond to so many different practitioners who all weasel out of taking any responsibility as individual human beings. As to your idea that Falun Gong's homophobia is inconsequencial if not publicly advertised, please consider the following story of a mother who adopted the idea that homosexuals are the cause of natural disasters only after she became a FG practitioner:

http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2006/02/107037_comment.php#107457

This kind of measurement of prosperity is never heard of! So, you measure the success of the China's communist rule by the number of Gay Bars...:-)))

You should go to live in China. For real, why don't you? Or it's more convenient to just take advantage of the cheap flesh that you can buy for a few dollars when you go there on sex tourism?

The success in China is a result of the sweat and blood of the hard working Chinese people who work for a couple dollars a day tirelessly, not of the communist party rule.
As a matter of fact the communist rule has been putting obstacles on the way to freedom and prosperity of China. There's a lot of information about that in the media.
But let me tell you that the Communist party, no matter what kind of a name it uses or a bill that passes is unable to make any true reforms. That’s why my information isn’t outdated. I experienced their rule first hand; I told you I was born in a communist country. We had a saying, “The wolf changes its skin (to the point that sometimes it looks like a sheep), but never his mentality of a wolf!”

It creates only corruption, hatred and injustice between people. The homosexuals are currently not seen as a threat to the communist rule in China and that's why the communist party in China gave them some freedoms.

Plus, it's a way to make some easy money from the affluent westerners. Like the organ harvesting of non-consenting prisoners and Falun Gong and selling them to westerners that abuse their own health, but then go to China for cheaper organ transplants.

OH Tom - C'mon fabricated stories from the CCP Central Propaganda Department - give me a break!

BTW,the teachings on homosexuality are not the focal point of the main teachings of Falun Gong. And keep in mind that auite a few orthodox religions have strict views on that topic, Master Li is not the only one.

Your lifestyle is your own choice.

Sorry for the above typo error: "Perhaps if you were dealing with a"

Should read: Perhaps if you were dealing with a government that understood human rights aren't just something to advertise in a sideshow museum for self-promotion (see http://www.martinfrost.ws/htmlfiles/dec2006/chinahr_exhibition.html)
foreign investment might help lift the quality of life. But under this regime, a regime that has always promoted violence and suppresion as a way to govern its masses, that is just wishful thinking.

"Every Communist must grasp the truth, political power grows out of the barrel of a gun." - Mao Zedong.

Last but certainly not least, the following provide a sneak peak into China's "Harmonious Society".

Articles:
http://www.zonaeuropa.com/20041201_1.htm
http://www.zonaeuropa.com/20041202_1.htm

Images:
http://www.zonaeuropa.com/20041202_2.htm

It sounds like you've been through a lot of suffering Tom.

Nevertheless, just keep in mind that homosexuals are always welcome to study the teachings of Falun Gong if they so wish. The door is wide open OK?

I think you're stuck man, you sound like a broken record!
Can you actually talk about something else, or you repeat the same stuff over and over again untill you start to believe yourself...:-)))

There is no question that there are sexual predators in both the gay and straight communities that do harm to all human society. To suggest otherwise is ignorant. I'm surprised you have gotten stuck on this issue. I guess there is nothing left to say that is worthwhile.

Hi Bob,

Since the teachings are for practitioners and every practitioner has their own understanding at their own levels, I will not elaborate on them. Every practitioner also applies the teachings according to their own understanding.

My saying that our activities and teachings are opened to homosexuals as much as anybody else should be mean something.

The fact that practitioners hang out with gays is also meaningful.

I respect your choice to believe or not to believe the teachings.

Folks, the only people posting and reading on this at this point have long held beliefs, on both sides, and are posting on any board that takes up this topic. There are no neutral observers at this point.

Where have I heard the slogans of harmonious society that Sam is preaching about before? OH that's it -- it's the Party line -- the Party culture.

As far as the Falun Gong is concerned, in addition to their own family, they have made the choice of embracing the world's people - that is the extent of their compassion. They live a normal life, have spouses, kids, friends, jobs, etc. They don't live like monks or nuns.

Falun Gong practitioners don't feel sorry for themselves but try to stop peacefully the heinous Communist regime from killing their family members for their beliefs.

I want to thank M.C. and SFMike for this in-depth report of the Falun Gong show and Rita for posting it here on SFist.

The marketing strategy of this show demonstrates the deceptive nature of the Falun Gong which has never been honest with the public about its true beliefs.

For the true cause of the ban of the Falun Gong in mainland China please click on the link below.

http://exposingthefalungong.org/fgban01.html