SFist: BRT Not BART

Jamison

Tue, 07 Nov 2006 08:06:21 -0800

About those broken busses and trains op, We've got 52 (I think) low-floor diesel-electric hybrid busses coming next year, but there's a lame state or federal legal requirement they undergo a year of testing before they can go into service. These will replace some of the oldest busses in the fleet. Next year "mid-life rebuilds" of the Muni Metro will start. These are complete overhauls and after 10 years of service and experience with the issues they have, they should come out the other end better than new. Muni's storage yard is way over capacity which limits how well and how quickly they can get working trains out, but in 2008 the new Metro East yard will open. With the trains spread out in two facilities it will be faster to get trains in and out (saving money that will go back into service) In 2008 the new storage/maintenance rail yard will open The Muni Metro trains

igmay

Mon, 06 Nov 2006 23:22:05 -0800

buses run on schedules. buses will always run on schedules. drivers will always need to get up in the death of early morning and get to the yard to make their shift. However, the phenomenon of bus riders studying schedules or calling 673-Muni to check the schedule for when bus A will be at location Z will be an experience of yesteryear when you get real data about where a bus is in the rider's hands. Put the nextbus technology on all the buses, shelters the internet and on a free phone system (make sure it is designed sufficiently bulletproof) and most transit users won't care about schedules. Note: The whole world does not run on schedules. While some parts of the world adhere more to schedules than others, sometimes the world just runs when it does.

Jamison

Mon, 06 Nov 2006 20:45:58 -0800

Like industry jargon, schedules are something that riders should not be burdened with if it can be avoided. As a rider what do you really need to know to use Muni? You aren't going to carry the phone book sized schedule around with you? Headways a lot easier to communicate and keep track of. Knowing a particular line runs every 12 minutes is going to be a lot more helpful, even if you take the same line at the same time everyday. You do miss your bus because of work or errends or whatever. The schedules should be available online and other places, but the primary way to know when a bus/train is coming.

op

Mon, 06 Nov 2006 19:55:19 -0800

I would actually sacrifice cleanliness for speedy service and busses/trains that don't break down two rides out of ten. Unfortunately I'm not going to be offered a choice.

suzeqzee

Mon, 06 Nov 2006 18:53:53 -0800

higmay - could you please clarify what you mean by "schedules are a thing of the past?" the whole world runs on schedules, so I'm thinking that I'm just not getting exactly what you are trying to convey...

higmay

Mon, 06 Nov 2006 18:11:29 -0800

Call it what you want, BRT is coming. It is growing in popularity and is being installed all over the world. People used to think of it as a stepping stone to more permanent rail, but if it works, you really shouldn't need the rail. I like trains, so this is all a little difficult to take. We obviously need a way to move more people more efficiently on the Geary, Van Ness and now Potrero(?) corridors. People will ride it and love it because it will look and feel like a train. The lack of rails keeps the cost lower and gives the vehicles more flexibility. The reserved right of way will and traffic signal coordination will not doubt increase reliability, but schedules are a thing of the past. I have seen the future and it is NextBus... Nextmuni, whatever. I don't care when it is supposed to be there. I want to know when it is going to be there. Muni doesn't have control over all the variables that ensure vehicles are going to be late (traffic density, accidents, double parking, poorly managed traffic flow, slow boarders, etc.). I'm sure that they wish that they did. Enough with the whiny "buses are dirty" bitching! We need to explore the cultural baggage we have accumulated against buses. I've seen all of y'all's apartments, and this baggage is not just about hygiene. Maybe I'm projecting, but my hunch is that bus haters have issues with proximity to the other. It is not about the permanence or consistency of rail, but about the cross cultural, cross class interactions necessary to "ride the bus." To make this work, San Francisco may need a rider amenity tier system. Stratified service based on how much you pay, with first class seats and stanchions clean enough to eat off of. Yum!

Jamison

Mon, 06 Nov 2006 15:27:07 -0800

As you said it's an industry term, and while we are often aware of them and their meanings, we don't go through life using only technical jargon and industry terms. I would never say "yesterday I boarded an inbound an N-Judah Breda LRV at the ROW in Duboce Park into the Market Street Tunnel where it ran on ATCS" instead of "I took the N downtown" To get the public involved in the process, or even know what those BRT signs on the busses mean, they shouldn't be using an industry term. Even more so because we live in San Francisco and there already was a proposed Geary BART line. They could have called it something like "Geary Rapid Transit" if they wanted people to know what it was.

Mon, 06 Nov 2006 14:39:17 -0800

The poster as well as one commenter stated how much they hate the term "BRT". Well, it's not just something that was come up with in San Francisco. BRT systems are implemented world-wide in a variety of ways. It's more like an industry term and, frankly, a very apt one. Obligatory wikipedia link

JAH

Mon, 06 Nov 2006 14:07:40 -0800

It sounds like the things they need to lure riders on to Muni are precisely the things they can't afford. Too bad.

Jamison

Mon, 06 Nov 2006 14:03:34 -0800

Fixing service short term is part of the TEP, which you can find out more about at sftep.org. There is a meeting of the Citizen Advisory Council this coming thursday and open houses on December 9, 11 and 12. Next muni displays are still in the works. There is a good chance from the feedback of different committees and citizen advisory councils that they will be multi-line displays, so one line can be dedicated to showing the next bus (or busses) all the time while the second can be used for other information. They don't have Next Muni displays in them, but there are two prototypes of a completely new shelter design in Front of the de Young and at Third and Palou. The hope is they can get everything worked out to have all the next bus displays installed at the same time the new shelters are put in. CBS Outdoors (formerly Viacom) is a private company which pays for the installation and maintenance of the all the shelters (even the ones without advertising) and I think they said, I might be wrong here, they would have them all replaced within 18 months after they start. A little bit of trivia: CBS Outdoors spend $15,000 per month on glass. Next Muni signs can only be installed where there is electrical conduit, so not every shelter will get them.

gearyrider

Mon, 06 Nov 2006 13:58:23 -0800

if they want to make it 'sophisticated' to ride the bus maybe they should CLEAN them all.

suzeqzee

Mon, 06 Nov 2006 13:08:04 -0800

here's an idea. create schedules with specific times 38 geary will be at: geary and leavenworth - 10:38am geary and van ness - 10:40am ... geary and webster - 10:50am make the drivers stick to the schedules you've created. even if it means they have to sit at a stop for 2 minutes when they want to race their friends or make a light. We all understand when a bus is a few minutes late - early sucks just as much. But when you wait 20 - 30 minutes for a bus that is supposed to come along approx every 12 minutes and then 3 come all at once, all packed to the gills, jostling for position - you're pretty unmotivated to not drive next time. if you want to get all fancy, install "where's the next bus" readouts at shelters and stops. transparent enough?

Jamison

Mon, 06 Nov 2006 12:59:45 -0800

The consultants aren't the ones coming up with ideas, it was the Board brainstorming with the consultant facilitating. This is exactly why they are trying to come up with a long term vision for the MTA, because otherwise it gets into to much detail about what's wrong today and we just end up treating the symptoms not the cause. Why can't we keep the busses clean? Why isn't there enough late night service? Because we can't afford it and the ridership isn't there, well what do we do to change the financial situation and attract new riders. It was brainstorming, lines are being taken out of context which will only discourage the Board from being completely transparent to the public this way.

Muni Rider No. 3354788A

Mon, 06 Nov 2006 12:29:37 -0800

Man...I hope Booz Allen Hamilton came up with some better ideas than that. Rather than making people "feel slightly bad" about driving a car, how about giving us a reason to want to ride Muni? Seriously, the reason people take cars in the City is 'cause Muni isn't reliable, the cars are trashed, and late-night service is lousy. A "Muni: The Hip Way to Ride!" campaign will smack of sheer desperation.

Jamison

Mon, 06 Nov 2006 11:56:15 -0800

The best way to think of BRT (I hate that term) is that it will be a lot like the N-Judah and the F-Market & Wharves are on the Embarcadero. Busses get their own lanes, better stops than a shelter and ticket machines at major stops. The TEP is different than what the Board met about on Friday. The TEP is meant to find and fix problems now (they'll have a list of immediate projects end of January) while the Board was trying to set long terms goals for the MTA. If you've been to college the idea is pretty straightforward: If you know where you want to be in 5 years, you can work backwards to figure out what you need to get you there. Your prerequisites. If we are going to need X number of busses in five years, how many will we need to replace, how many do we need to buy does it make financial sense to spread that out, etc.

SFist: BRT Not BART

Jamison

igmay

Jamison

op

suzeqzee

higmay

Jamison

AD

JAH

Jamison

gearyrider

suzeqzee

Jamison

Muni Rider No. 3354788A

Jamison