Bay Blogger Thursday

[Ed. Note: We don't qualify as an expert on anything, much less a "Sexpert." We're just another horny blogger. So bear with us as we try to ask intelligent questions. And forgive Susie for any short answers -- she's got a family to love, a book to promote and a blog to maintain, after all.]

First of all, thanks for deigning to let us help promote your book.  You've been writing, editing and critiquing erotica for years now.  Would you mind introducing our readers to some classics of the genre?

I think everyone has their own personal history of the books they first read that they realized were "hot." I remember a copy of the Godfather that was being passed around my seventh grade classroom with the "dirty parts" marked in turned-down pages. When I got older, I went back to look at what was so "dirty' and I just had to laugh-- it was Mario Puzo's version of The Farmer's Daughter, a bawdy story with no shortage of purple prose.

I also remember the first time I read erotic stories that I realized were being told with a degree of insight and depth that took them into another dimension. They were "hot," but they also were profound on other levels. I remember John Updike's  "Couples" and Charles Bukowski's "Notes of a Dirty Old Man." I remember taking "Story of O" on my first major backpacking trip into the Sierras for  a month of bushwacking. I remember how spooked I was that the two books I packed:  "O" and "Gravity's Rainbow," both ended with unfinished sentences.

My introduction to "plain brown wrappers" came much later. I picked up a hitchhiker on Valencia St. , which much have been the last of his kind in the 1980s, and he left a brown-bag covered paperback in the back seat when he left, titled: "Dueling Lesbians in Bondage." What a treasure.

We are so putting that book title or cover on a t-shirt, and may have learn an instrument so we can start a band with that name. Sort of tangentially associated, have any of your BAE stories been pitched as films? What would you think if someone tried to adapt, say, Bill Noble's "Salt" or Mistress Morgana's "All in a Day's Work" as a short film? Because we're seeing a twelve-episode deal with HBO.

A couple times we've had personal assistants of Hollywood Egomaniacs call me and request an overnight delivery, but nothing has come of it.

So how does erotica differ from pornography?  Is it because it's higher quality?  Less exploitative?  Or is it just more smartly sexual?

There used to be some really interesting answers to that question, deriving from "erotica's" history as an aesthetic description, whereas 'pornographic" really evolved as a legal term, a political gun, a religious condemnation.

But in recent years, the consumer mainstreaming of both those words has made the distinctions more of a banal joke. People nowadays tend to think of "porn" as visual and visceral. "Erotic" tends to get spun to the ladies in the audience. I'm embarrassed by the stereotyping of both labels in the ever-frantic rush to sell something that's probably nothing more than a shill.

You know what I really enjoyed recently, that defied those descriptions?  The lastest issue of FOUND magazine, which is defiantly anti-commercial, all accidental, amateur sexual expression. What a relief from corporate sex sales.

My own book series, Best American Erotica, has an excellent reputation among those who read it- that it is the "Real McCoy,"- but my books, like all books with sexual content, suffer from the Paris Hilton Syndrome, by association. 

What is PHS? It's when we watch these deluded celebrities get coronated as "erotic superstars, porn queens, sex divas" and it convinces the public to think, "Oh, so that's what erotic/porn/sexy MEANS now."  In fact, these title-holders are too anorexic to experience orgasm, and the products they sell are completely divorced from sexual authenticity or erotic creativity.

Ah, now you've made us very happy, because there are few things that catch fire in the blogosphere faster than anything about dear, sweet Paris. Bless her little heart, as Molly Ivins might say. But won't the market for erotic media always been slanted towards servicing the needs of straight, white men -- at least in any sort of socially acceptible way?

I think Paris-mania is not because she's so sexy, but because she's a trainwreck. It's rubbernecking for everyone. She's marketed to women as fiercely as men.  Everyone's sitting around waiting for her suicide attempt; it's rather gruesome.

Hardcore porn is very diverse and isn't as one-dimensional as you suggest...never has been. It's mainstream "Important" magazines that are oriented toward the well-to-do, the male POV, the white assumption. Serious messy pornography is more of a rainbow coaltion.

In saying that "'Erotic' tends to get spun to the ladies," is it something of a codeword? "Beware ye who enter this section of the bookstore -- hairy lesbians, anal sex and big words ahead!"

Erotic and Pornographic definitely get used as marketing labels to insinuate various things at various times. But classically, erotica has an aesthetic orgin, whereas pornographic comes from a legal debate.

Certainly one of the things that we found so transgressive was the range of both the literary and sexual expression from Simon Shephard's "After the Beep" to "Charle's Syke's 'Spirit of Ecstasy'" by P.S. Haven. Not only are the authors a mixed bag of races, genders and preferences, but so were the characters, and the two were not necessarily always related. Do you feel this is a reason why people keep coming back to your series, when as you mentioned at the reading a whole set of niche anthologies have sprouted like weeds in your backyard?

I don't care what kind of language people use as long as they can write like a motherf**ker.

You were working at Good Vibrations way back when 'vibrator' was a dirty word and the idea that you would buy something at a clean, well-lit store catering to a range of genders and tastes was completely foreign to Americans.  Now 'Pleasure Parties' are given at homes across the bible belt by ladies who might have once pitched Avon or Tupperware.  Do you feel that Good Vibes and folks like them have helped foment a change in the comfort level regarding the discussion of sexual pleasure and the routes to achieve it?

Is that a Yes/No question? Sorry, I'm teasing you. Obviously you've stated the case for how the ripple in the pond grew bigger than anyone expected. I will tell you that I hated hosting Fuckerware parties myself, because I would drive for hours, sometimes from San Francisco to Sacramento, and then I would be met with some very nervous women who desperately wanted sex advice, counsel and inspiration, and yet I was supposed to sell them a vibrator and lube and be done with it. I didn't want to give them the idea that a product of any kind could solve all their dilemmas, I didn't want to be a snake oil saleswoman. So I made little money, provided intense therapy, and then drove home alone with ten dollars in my pocket. Very lonely drives, very unsatsifying. They needed a CR group, with vibrators on the side.

Our favorite was probably Lisa Montanarelli's hilarious story "Loved It and Set It Free" (we haven't laughed that hard, or awkwardly, since the last time we went to a David Sedaris reading) brings to mind the fact that erotic objects, be they videos or dildos, serve as a focal point for people who want to introduce the idea of sex without some of the vulnerability of admitting their own personal investment in the topic. Humor is a classic defense mechanism. So you would say that a 'Fuckerware party' (is that your neologism? because it's awesome) can't necessarily succeed in changing attitudes in the long run because the problem is not in people's ability to stimulate themselves or their partners, necessarily, but because they can't let go with their imaginations and share their fantasies?

Yes.

We're a little jealous of the sixties.  It was after the pill and penicillin, but before the dawn of AIDS and widespread awareness of Herpes and Hepatitis.  We're a little miffed we missed the 'sexual revolution.'

Go ahead, be jealous of the 70s, too.

[Ed. Note: Oh, we are.]

But now we seem to fighting many of the same battles all over again -- sexual education in schools, equal rights for homosexuals, private access to pornography for adults.  Do you think this is part of a larger right-wing backlash to the changes wrought by the last generation, or is it simply a manifestation of the same old hypocritical didacticism and moral outrage born by prejudice?

Well, both. I mean, some people never got over being outraged by the 60s. And they happen to be in grand positions of power now. Look at W., the classic example. Just imagine all the group sex and acid punch he missed, and how bitterly he resents it.

My more serious answer has to do with how America has been experiencing a tsunami of division between haves and have-nots, with a forward attack on everythign in the middle. Having a healthy middle class, and a good education and healthcare system, is a great libearlizing influence on sexual mores. When things get more grim, prejudice and fear are the propoganda tools of choice to keep the dispossessed fighting among themselves and missing the big picture.

The thing to remember is how undemocratic this whole family values crackdown is. Believe me, the governing elite get all the abortions, porn, kinky affairs and sexual shenanigans they want, with protection and discretion. They know what evolution is. They have no interest in limiting their exposure and privelege. It's just the "public" (i.e. poor suckers) that have to be disciplined and sheltered.

George Lakoff talks about the fight between the "strong father" idea of government and family generally associated with the right versus the "nurturing mother" model associated with the left. The "Mall-ization" of adult media seems to play into that by servicing the fantasies of white men to the exclusion of something as diverse as your latest anthology. You mentioned at your meeting that there's been a progression in the BAE stories from a more aggressively defiant, memoirist approach that was meant to challenge assumptions, and that it has now become more of a place where good writers just come to play. But will that dilute the impact?

No, these writers are quite defiant, no matter whose POV they're writing from. No pandering allowed.

Can you win against a tide of plastic blondes and men 'reclaiming their place in the family?', or is BAE just one front in the battle?

Can I WIN?  Gosh, I dont' know. I need more nickels to play.

[Ed. Note: Okay, we meant, 'Can one win,' or something. Still a good answer.]

You're both an accomplished writer and a fairly well-known personality (SFist likes to call you a "Celebrity").  But your blog is not only a source for free Susie Bright content but also delves into your private life -- when many people in your position would rather guard both jealously.  How do you feel your blog fits into your professional role as an expert and your personal need for privacy?

I have as big a private life as anyone, and I don't blog about it. It's "private" because no one knows about except me, or my intimate family/friends. I know that there seems to be a vogue for reality confessionals, but I don't buy it. I think EVERYONE is circumspect about their tender parts, whatever that means.

I've used considerable hindsight and humor to tell bits and pieces of my experience, yes, but I don't run from my bedroom to my web site to jot it all down.  And the pieces that are the most vulnearble to me, might not even occur to someone else as private. For example, my mom just died last month, and the writing I've done about her, and the grieving process, since she passed away, are far more revealing, in my opinion, that telling you about how I learned about the birds and the bees.

Who are some of the talents you selected for the new anthology?  Do you know most of the authors behind the work you choose, or are you picking the best from a year of reading?  What are you looking for in a writer or story?

I read voraciously, I'm always on the lookout for something new and wonderful for BAE.  No, I've never met most of the people I select for the book, but it's a treat when I do.  I wish I could have a big party of every author I've published.    What I notice lately is that the best writers in American literary fiction are all addressing sexual character and authenticity in their storytelling. It's just something you can't ignore any more.

What would you tell a young punk who wants to write erotica fiction (or fact for that matter)?  We've, ahem, read a lot of bad porn copy, as well as Literary Review Bad Sex award winner Thomas Wolfe, and a lot of incidental erotica we stumble across is a mix of that and bad high-school poetry.  What are some of the tips to writing about sex in a way that's literary and arousing, and where would a young writer with some talent pitch their work?

I've been asked that question so often that I self published a book called "how to write a dirty story", about all of that... reading, writing and publishing erotica. I self published it because i wanted to be absolutely brazen about the b.s. that can happen in publishing and I didn't want any publishing house to demand its deletion!  But then, the book was so successful that it got bought by a big house anyway. In any case, it's dedicated to all young punks and old sages, with my love and everything I've learned.

Well now we're just interested in picking up that book as a writer and reader, generally. But you mentioned with FOUND magazine, where the contributors are all amateurs (something SFist can surely appreciate). However the corporate sales are how we assume you've managed to make a living. In Andy Quan's "First Draft", which was interestingly involved in the writing process, the protagonist says:

"We walk about the week, and about work, and have a long conversation on writing. You'd like to take some time off. You wonder if you could make it as a writer by giving yourself time to do it. I, on the other hand, never imagine supporting myself through mere words. I write when I can, and have managed to have more success at it than you."

Wouldn't that behoove someone who wants to be a writer professionally to take a broad approach to genre, such as Jane Smiley and Thomas Roche have done? We do this for love, but the unemployment checks are going to run out eventually.

I think people who've had a measure of book sales success are shocked. They feel like they met with a lucky accident. You need to be prolific, and a good writer, but the other 80% is seizing the time.

So a lot of folks who read SFist see "S Fist" (in fact, Google suggests it when you search on "sfist").  At first we were a little pissed, but once it was explained that Susie Bright would probably be all for it, and that it's not entirely inappropriate for a blog about San Francisco, we embraced it.  When the bloggers league softball starts, we'll be the "Super Fisters," and proud of it.  Are you willing to give your blessing to our appropriation?

Yes, of course!

Another 'Fister requested that we ask the following:  What are your top ten products currently on sale at Good Vibes and other quality adult retailers?

I don't work at GV or any retailer anymore, so I don't know their top ten. I hope some of my books are on it!  I write about my favorite books, movies, music, and toys on my blog, and I try to come up with stuff that is classic yet unappreciated, or something a bit more esoteric that is never going to make it on the commercial lists.

Fine, we'll pester Carol Queen, then. Could you give us some sites you visit daily or weekly instead? Other bloggers or online magazines? We're too poor and/or lazy to actually go out an buy something in print, or mail a subscription card.

The New York Times
Fleshbot

Finally, everyone loves an "Only in San Francisco" story, and we know you probably have a thousand of top vintage.  If you'll give us just one, we're going to stop asking questions and just listen...thanks again for taking the time to chat with us and our readers!

That reading you were at...there was an woman there who was very seriously taking notes and afterwards asked me about the craft of writing, the art of journalism -- she was so keen. After she left, I looked over to where she had been sitting and there was a huge, huge wet stain on the seat of her chair. It'll never come out. I would give anything to know which story we read caused all that commotion.

Wow. We were expecting something like a Board of Supervisors orgy or having to deliver toys discretely to a suite at the International Mark Hopkins for a visiting clergyman or something. That answer is going down in history. We're going to ring up the tourism board office and offer that up for their promotional materials. Wonder if Gavin would get on board with that?